Front panniers

[psmiffy]

even Crankarm does not say it is perfect - some German geezers I met in Lithuania with hardtails and OMM racks had come over a 1000ks using theirs - but were given to admire my Nitto front rack on rigid forks - it works - it is a solution

 

[willem]

The Tubus Swing's name is aptly chosen.

It is a design that is a rip off of a similar but better design by Dutch frame builder m-gineering. The difference with the original is that the Tubus design is more universal and can be used with many more forks, but at the price of the bags being in a more forward position. And it is that forward position rather than the high centre of gravity that makes the bike less than stable.
So it is either the Swing with only light bags, or some unsprung OMM rack in a better position, or the third possibility, the expensive and complex FAIV rack, that combines a sprung design with a low centre of gravity, but at the expense of added complexity, more maintenance, and a high price.
As I said, there is also the option of taking less weight if you must use a suspension fork. After all, you take a bike with a suspension fork because you want to ride off road. Riding off road benefits enormously from a nimble lightly loaded bike.
Willem

 

[Bodhbh]

We seem to be getting differing opinions here and I am still none the wiser

thanks

You don't need to browse cycling forums for long to notice you will get wildy different and often diametrically opposing views from people who have years of experience and know what they are doing but come to opposite conclusions (not like me, I picked up a bike first time about 4yrs ago, although gradually working out what seems to go for me). Kickstands, front panniers, disk brakes, tarps and hammocks, steel vs aluminium, etc are all liable to flair up into flame wars.

Personally I'd go with lowrider + rigid forks. Sus forks I've never missed since not using them, but I'm sure they've not killed anyone either. God knows I've seen people touring and having a whale of a time on some absolute piles of crap that no one in their right mind would suggest using if had the chance. My first tour was on a rented city bike with 40L mountaineering backpack to take the luggage. 60miles a day with a bit of backache, but I enjoyed it so much every holiday or trip since has been on the bike.

 

[hubbike]

OP has bike with front susp. and wanted a cheap solution.

I've met many guys out on the road with homemade panniers, bodged together racks, riding godawful bikes. Mainly because they were poor and just had drive and adventurous spirit.

like these guys
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27474601@N07/4569193047/in/set-72157623079723074
this dude
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27474601@N07/4774908389/in/set-72157623079723074
this guy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27474601@N07/4228673437/in/set-72157623079723074
these nutters
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27474601@N07/4216268900/in/set-72157623079723074
and this madman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27474601@N07/5158211553

(and if you want to see photos of more cyclists and bikes see here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27474601@N07/sets/72157623079723074/)

I suppose my point is that you CAN tour with a cheap bike, dodgy cheap racks, and a pair of cheap bags held on with bungies. And all power to you. Gear is fairly over-rated. If you want to go, then go. whatever you have will do.

that said, if you are prepared to invest the money, and you are serious about touring, IMHO you want rigid forks and lowriders (even if you're planning to tour off-road).

If you are really serious about off-roading then you should read this:
http://tomsbiketrip.com/2010/04/how-to-build-the-perfect-expedition-bike-part-1/

 

[Aushiker]

Hi

Another rack option is the Freeload from New Zealand. Not cheap but.

Designed to accept panniers and handle longer top loads with ease, this rack features adjustable 10mm side rails and a flat deck. It is identical to the Sport rack in every way other than the deck.

Re-positionable 10mm rails give you up to 75mm of fore/aft adjustment - vital for gaining valuable heel clearance on mountain bikes with tight geometry in the rear end, and handy when you want to bring your load closer to the bikes centre of gravity on the front end.
The rail end plugs let you clamp your pannier hooks in place to stop annoying rattles, and keep them from sliding back and forth.
Our modular design means you can change between decks at a moments notice, no tools required.

Regards
Andrew

 

[Crankarm]

even Crankarm does not say it is perfect - some German geezers I met in Lithuania with hardtails and OMM racks had come over a 1000ks using theirs - but were given to admire my Nitto front rack on rigid forks - it works - it is a solution

I think I may have given that impression in my excitement! For sure it is not perfect. If mounting a low loader rack such as a Tubus Ergo on a suspension fork is not as perilous as mickle suggests then I think it works pretty well. The only issue I can forsee is maybe ground clearance but as I say the front panniers when fitted are slightly higher than when mounted on my low loader rack on my solid fork commuter bike which I write about below. Mickle and a few others all point to others' anecdotal evidence to support their assertions that mounting panniers like this is not good. I have tried to approach the task to mount panniers as logically as possible arriving at a solution that suits me. I take the point about increasing unsprung weight but using examples from vehicles - ie cars, is I think a little misleading as cars have much greater forces and speeds involved. On a bicycle if you want to carry weight in my mind it is best to carry it in as lower position as possible notwithstanding the other considerations I have mentioned.

It would be nice to have bosses on suspension forks as do some rigid front racks. Just to point out I would think MTB front suspension forks aren't designed to carrying any luggage or racks of what ever flavour. It is difficult to imagine a MTB racing around a course with luggage on front or rear! Yes ideally a solid fork with bosses to mount a front rack, ideally low loader, is the most favourable option but my commuter/touring bike was totalled earlier in the year. It and me met with a car, so for now I modify my MTB which already has a rear rack fitted but which now also has a front rack. The other thing that I was concerned about in where to mount a front rack was the range of sprung weight the front fork was designed to operate between. I am of average weight, plus a few kilos since I have not been doing any cycling really, and to add more than a few kilos with front panniers may well overload the fork because too much weight would be compressing it compromising performance ie travel, bounce rebound etc and of course much reduce longevity. However as previously suggested my use is not going to be steaming around a cyclocross course which must in itself put quite extreme forces through the fork.

I have not had the chance to put the current set up to extreme test but first impressions, loaded with front panniers and riding on fairly smooth tracks is that it works pretty well. The fork on my Kona Kula MTB is pretty hardcore, not some flimsy crappy one you see on some BSOs and appears very over engineered. In normal riding ie road the extra weight of the front panniers will be born by the front axle not the shock absorber itself. The front low loader is mounted to the casing and not the internal shaft or bridge higher up. I cannot see any major disadvantages at present, sorry mickle. Tyres are Marathon XR if you are wanting to know what they. The bike has hydraulic disc brakes. I also have a mount fitted for a bar bag. Does this commit an offence mickle?

Yes you do hear of other cyclists setting off on real BSOs and cobbling together various luggage carrying systems of not the mainstream quality kit we are all familiar with and many do just fine, so as some one has suggested, there is quite a bit of snobbery and probably inverted envy as well. They probably have more fun and adventures than some of us chaps who have acquired all the brand kit you "must have". Each to their own. If you like it and feel it works for you then go for it.


Psmiffy thanks for the welcome back. I had a break for a while following my forced unseating. I have been lurking recently though and gradually replying to more stuff. I still haven't got back to riding regularly though preferring to prepare for riding in cycling nirvana where ever that might be - a long weekend on Welsh trails?

 

[Crankarm]

OP has bike with front susp. and wanted a cheap solution.

I've met many guys out on the road with homemade panniers, bodged together racks, riding godawful bikes. Mainly because they were poor and just had drive and adventurous spirit.

like these guys
http://www.flickr.co...157623079723074
this dude
http://www.flickr.co...157623079723074
this guy
http://www.flickr.co...157623079723074
these nutters
http://www.flickr.co...157623079723074
and this madman
http://www.flickr.co...@N07/5158211553

(and if you want to see photos of more cyclists and bikes see here:
http://www.flickr.co...57623079723074/)

I suppose my point is that you CAN tour with a cheap bike, dodgy cheap racks, and a pair of cheap bags held on with bungies. And all power to you. Gear is fairly over-rated. If you want to go, then go. whatever you have will do.

that said, if you are prepared to invest the money, and you are serious about touring, IMHO you want rigid forks and lowriders (even if you're planning to tour off-road).

If you are really serious about off-roading then you should read this:
http://tomsbiketrip....on-bike-part-1/

I am struggling to find why you think the cyclists in the links you posted are "nutters" or "madmen or madwomen" riding "Godawful bikes". All but the last guy, who looks as if he is South American but still doing the touring thing so top marks to him and another bike, are riding fairly decent bikes or old style MTBs with the ubiquitous Ortlieb panniers and Tubus racks or similar. The "nutters" link are several young guys riding UTE bikes which I happen to think is pretty cool, not some thing I have ever considered or even tried or would, but each to their own. All these people look to be having an excellent time touring and I am bemused that you feel the need for disparaging remarks. Sorry.

 

[albion]

I'd certainly say there is a heck of a lot of adventure in anyone making their own panniers and racks.

 

[Ticktockmy]

I think we must have left the OP, totally baffled by all the different views and likes and dislikes, that we have put forward. I think he will have to end up doing what we have all done, and allow time and experiment to find what setup suits him and his riding style best.

I must say I find the arguments against using a suspension forks a little baffling. For years I used a “proper Touring Bike” if there is such a thing, then just days before setting of on a tour of Morocco the frame snapped just above the BB, which on hindsight was a stroke of luck. So the MTB was brought in to play, which had Suspension forks on it and this was 2001, so not so good as the modern ones. After some heavy engineering work making brackets to fit my racks to the Bike, I had a very successful trip, with no problems from the racks or the suspension and handling related problems.

Since then, I have always used a Mountain Bike fitted with Suspension. I find that by fitting the Front rack to the bottom section of the forks and like Crankarm said the weight is taken on the Front axle, and we are only talking a load of 10KG at the most. Last year I cycled down from Durness to Carlisle carrying my camping kit, using minor back roads and Landover tracks and some singletrack and had no problems indeed I think the Front suspension saved my wrists from taking a battering on the off road sections.

But of course what suits one person, will not suit another, I am concerned that the Racks that clamp on the crown assembly will put strain on to the Sliders and the seals and cause the suspension to bounce excessively which offroad and indeed on road lead to lose of control.

 

[willem]

I would like to add a little bit of factual information. It was said here that with the OMM Ultimate Lowrider the bags hang pretty low. That was indeed true until recently. However, the current version is vertically adjustable.
Willem

 

[hubbike]

I am struggling to find why you think the cyclists in the links you posted are "nutters" or "madmen or madwomen" riding "Godawful bikes". All but the last guy, who looks as if he is South American but still doing the touring thing so top marks to him and another bike, are riding fairly decent bikes or old style MTBs with the ubiquitous Ortlieb panniers and Tubus racks or similar. The "nutters" link are several young guys riding UTE bikes which I happen to think is pretty cool, not some thing I have ever considered or even tried or would, but each to their own. All these people look to be having an excellent time touring and I am bemused that you feel the need for disparaging remarks. Sorry.

Crankarm, seriously. My remarks were in jest! You've missed my point by 180 degrees. If you re-read you'll realise I think these guys are inspiring and I have the utmost respect for them. My remarks were not disparaging at all.

I chose pictures of poor quality racks, poor quality panniers and poor quality bikes (with dodgy and unnecessary front susp.) precisely to illustrate what can be achieved without Gucci kit. There is no tubus or ortlieb to be seen in the shots (of ecuadorians, a frenchman, an italian and a colombian.) Old style mountain bikes are so rugged and hardy they'll take one hell of a battering and are ideal for touring (if you don't have the cash for something better).


The Ride the Spine lads won't mind being called nutters. (because they are!) and Carlos is a madman. whether he likes it or not.

 

[mickle]

I think I may have given that impression in my excitement! For sure it is not perfect. If mounting a low loader rack such as a Tubus Ergo on a suspension fork is not as perilous as mickle suggests then I think it works pretty well. The only issue I can forsee is maybe ground clearance but as I say the front panniers when fitted are slightly higher than when mounted on my low loader rack on my solid fork commuter bike which I write about below. Mickle and a few others all point to others' anecdotal evidence to support their assertions that mounting panniers like this is not good. I have tried to approach the task to mount panniers as logically as possible arriving at a solution that suits me. I take the point about increasing unsprung weight but using examples from vehicles - ie cars, is I think a little misleading as cars have much greater forces and speeds involved. On a bicycle if you want to carry weight in my mind it is best to carry it in as lower position as possible notwithstanding the other considerations I have mentioned.

It would be nice to have bosses on suspension forks as do some rigid front racks. Just to point out I would think MTB front suspension forks aren't designed to carrying any luggage or racks of what ever flavour. It is difficult to imagine a MTB racing around a course with luggage on front or rear! Yes ideally a solid fork with bosses to mount a front rack, ideally low loader, is the most favourable option but my commuter/touring bike was totalled earlier in the year. It and me met with a car, so for now I modify my MTB which already has a rear rack fitted but which now also has a front rack. The other thing that I was concerned about in where to mount a front rack was the range of sprung weight the front fork was designed to operate between. I am of average weight, plus a few kilos since I have not been doing any cycling really, and to add more than a few kilos with front panniers may well overload the fork because too much weight would be compressing it compromising performance ie travel, bounce rebound etc and of course much reduce longevity. However as previously suggested my use is not going to be steaming around a cyclocross course which must in itself put quite extreme forces through the fork.

I have not had the chance to put the current set up to extreme test but first impressions, loaded with front panniers and riding on fairly smooth tracks is that it works pretty well. The fork on my Kona Kula MTB is pretty hardcore, not some flimsy crappy one you see on some BSOs and appears very over engineered. In normal riding ie road the extra weight of the front panniers will be born by the front axle not the shock absorber itself. The front low loader is mounted to the casing and not the internal shaft or bridge higher up. I cannot see any major disadvantages at present, sorry mickle. Tyres are Marathon XR if you are wanting to know what they. The bike has hydraulic disc brakes. I also have a mount fitted for a bar bag. Does this commit an offence mickle?

Yes you do hear of other cyclists setting off on real BSOs and cobbling together various luggage carrying systems of not the mainstream quality kit we are all familiar with and many do just fine, so as some one has suggested, there is quite a bit of snobbery and probably inverted envy as well. They probably have more fun and adventures than some of us chaps who have acquired all the brand kit you "must have". Each to their own. If you like it and feel it works for you then go for it.

You've got no call getting snippy with me mister. Ride a full BSO with a rucksack and a wicker basket if you want, I'm simply trying to explain best practice.

 

[Crankarm]

I think we must have left the OP, totally baffled by all the different views and likes and dislikes, that we have put forward. I think he will have to end up doing what we have all done, and allow time and experiment to find what setup suits him and his riding style best.

I must say I find the arguments against using a suspension forks a little baffling. For years I used a “proper Touring Bike” if there is such a thing, then just days before setting of on a tour of Morocco the frame snapped just above the BB, which on hindsight was a stroke of luck. So the MTB was brought in to play, which had Suspension forks on it and this was 2001, so not so good as the modern ones. After some heavy engineering work making brackets to fit my racks to the Bike, I had a very successful trip, with no problems from the racks or the suspension and handling related problems.

Since then, I have always used a Mountain Bike fitted with Suspension. I find that by fitting the Front rack to the bottom section of the forks and like Crankarm said the weight is taken on the Front axle, and we are only talking a load of 10KG at the most. Last year I cycled down from Durness to Carlisle carrying my camping kit, using minor back roads and Landover tracks and some singletrack and had no problems indeed I think the Front suspension saved my wrists from taking a battering on the off road sections.

But of course what suits one person, will not suit another, I am concerned that the Racks that clamp on the crown assembly will put strain on to the Sliders and the seals and cause the suspension to bounce excessively which offroad and indeed on road lead to lose of control.

+1.

 

[Crankarm]

You've got no call getting snippy with me mister. Ride a full BSO with a rucksack and a wicker basket if you want, I'm simply trying to explain best practice.

I think some people prefer to take a contrary stance just for the sake of it or because they can. What best practice?

 

[mickle]

I think some people prefer to take a contrary stance just for the sake of it or because they can. What best practice?

wibble