Genesis releases 2021 Croix De Fer range (and others)

[stoatsngroats]

I’m not sure I could tell much difference between alloy and light Reynolds for the cycling I do, but I really happy with the CDA30, it does seem light, and comfortable, and fast enough for me.
For under £1k, it’s a steal.
I know we all have different parameters and choices to make, and I’m glad I wasn’t tempted by the higher spec Genesis Models, as the CDA,was exactly what I was seeking, even if I only had a rough idea at the time. 42c width on 700c should cover all of my needs, and I not convinced overly on carbon, forks or frame, nor wheels, so for value, I’m convinced, and totally happy...... ( well maybe not with Promax, but that remains to be seen).

 

[stoatsngroats]

Grand - looks nice

I didn't immediately twig that yours was part of this year's new releases; looks like they hit the market a far bit before the rest of the company's 2021 lineup. I read your post with interest on my CdF thread but haven't got round to updating it yet!

Yes, 2021 model.
I had been looking for maybe 8 weeks and on the 1st weekend in August noted my LBS showed stock of this, with around 5 of each size, so 25 in stock. I called in on the Monday, ordered the large for collection the following Saturday, and when I collected there were only 2 left, 1small and 1 xl.
That was stock for 4 or 5 stores across Hants. and Sussex.
Even now, looking across other online stores, it looks like the CDA is selling quickly, no doubt helped by this pandemic.

I’ve looked at Genesis over the last 4 or so years, the CdF was what caught my eye on a ride London weekend, but I’m totally happy with my budget purchase.

 

[Chromatic]

Thank goodness I read the thread, I saw the thread title and for one terrible moment I thought Phil Collins and the rest of them had been back in the studio.

 

[wafter]

Call me a cynic (or one of the many four-letter alternatives those who know me seem to prefer), but looking at the pics of this and last year's frames plus that of my 2020 example, I'm wondering if the dims pertinent to tyre clearance (such as the spacing between chainstays and seatstays, bridge positions, spacing between fork arms etc) is actually the same between 2020 and 2021 models; and that the "increase" in tyre width compatability from 37 to 42mm might just be a construct of Genesis' marketing department.

Granted I have mudguards on mine which complicate matters, however looking at clearance between my (true) 35mm wide 35c slick tyres and the surrounding parts of the frame, I reckon there's a good 6-7mm clearance in most areas; which would accommodate another 3.5mm on each side fairly easily.

It's hard to tell but comparing images of frames from both MYs everything looks the same in these areas.. could someone hurry up and buy a new model so we can compare notes to appease my curiousity, please?

 

[wafter]

For off-road use I'd be looking at nice wide clearances for tires, but whilst wider than before, 42mm at 700c is still far too small for me.

It seems a lot of the cash is in the frame, rather than the groupset as well. These bikes do look nice, but you do seem to be paying a premium for choosing Reynolds steel and loosing out on the groupset as a result.

My Kona retails for €2000 and has a generic chromoloy frame, which is much cheaper than a Reynolds one, and most of the money goes into the SRAM groupset. I must admit after riding it for a year, that I can't really discern any difference between my frame and a Reynolds badged one.

Sorry - forgot to reply to this as only spotted it after I'd responded to the previous posts!

That's fair enough about the tyres; I guess it depends at which end of the "gravel" spectrum your tastes lie. Personally I do probably 80-90% road miles and the rest is fairly tame off-road; so 35c slicks suit me fine (I may feel differently if I do more muddy cross-country come the winter, mind; although I reckon some 35c cyclocross tyres should see me reet ).

I think there's certainly a bit of a premium attached to these bikes, along with a bit of p*ss-taking with artificial price-points being set through intentional design limitations. I'd be interested to know what the actual price difference is in the tubing; I think there's about a £350 difference on the RRP between the CdF 10 (Genesis' own Chromo tubing and Sora-based gearing) and CdF 20 (Reynolds 725 and Tiagra-based gearing).

When I was weighing up the 20 v. 30 earlier in the year the 30 didn't make a whole lot of financial sense (£600 / 45% more on the RRP for a slightly-different spec frame of the same Reynolds 725 and a full hydro 105 groupset (with some GRX) v. the Mech-based Tiagra on the 20..); bearing in mind that (on paper at least) I could have bought a full 105 Hydro groupset from Chain Reaction for £500; the kicker being that the lower-spec frame wouldn't take the flat-mount calipers and lacked through-axles, which were something I wanted. As such I suspect the percentage margins are higher on the higher-end bikes, but then they also sell in much lower volumes than the lower-spec items, judging by the quantities of each I see for sale used.

To be fair I can see some intrinsic worth in the Reynolds tubing - IIRC it's double-butted, heat-treated and actually pretty swanky in places (for example the top tube tapers from front to rear) so I can appreciate that it will be lighter, springier and legitimately more expensive to produce that plain-section, as-received un-butted chromo. I agree though; not sure how much this translates into a tangibly improved ride!

While not a fan of Sram stuff in general I do love love your Kona! How are you finding the groupset on it; any issues since you've bought it?

 

[cheys03]

Great comparison Wafter. I'm shocked at the prices frankly. The backwards steps, downgrades and splitting of the spec across 5 models (plus the flat bar variants) leaves a bad taste in the mouth. The 853 frameset should include a carbon fork. Genesis used to sell a separate carbon fork for the Croix de Fer range, which looks like it made a return in 2019 as the "Genesis CGR1 one fork" at £350. To me this is a welcome upgrade choice, but not including it in the 853 framesets, even as an option is scandalous.
If it had to be this bike, on these specs and prices I'd probably be tempted to wait for the sales, build from a frameset or buy secondhand. Perhaps build from a frameset bought in the sales might be ideal. It's a shame there is no steel frame/carbon fork frameset option like with the Equilibrium Disc 725 12/12 and carbon fork (£950).

 

[chriswoody]

Sorry - forgot to reply to this as only spotted it after I'd responded to the previous posts!

That's fair enough about the tyres; I guess it depends at which end of the "gravel" spectrum your tastes lie. Personally I do probably 80-90% road miles and the rest is fairly tame off-road; so 35c slicks suit me fine (I may feel differently if I do more muddy cross-country come the winter, mind; although I reckon some 35c cyclocross tyres should see me reet ).

I think there's certainly a bit of a premium attached to these bikes, along with a bit of p*ss-taking with artificial price-points being set through intentional design limitations. I'd be interested to know what the actual price difference is in the tubing; I think there's about a £350 difference on the RRP between the CdF 10 (Genesis' own Chromo tubing and Sora-based gearing) and CdF 20 (Reynolds 725 and Tiagra-based gearing).

When I was weighing up the 20 v. 30 earlier in the year the 30 didn't make a whole lot of financial sense (£600 / 45% more on the RRP for a slightly-different spec frame of the same Reynolds 725 and a full hydro 105 groupset (with some GRX) v. the Mech-based Tiagra on the 20..); bearing in mind that (on paper at least) I could have bought a full 105 Hydro groupset from Chain Reaction for £500; the kicker being that the lower-spec frame wouldn't take the flat-mount calipers and lacked through-axles, which were something I wanted. As such I suspect the percentage margins are higher on the higher-end bikes, but then they also sell in much lower volumes than the lower-spec items, judging by the quantities of each I see for sale used.

To be fair I can see some intrinsic worth in the Reynolds tubing - IIRC it's double-butted, heat-treated and actually pretty swanky in places (for example the top tube tapers from front to rear) so I can appreciate that it will be lighter, springier and legitimately more expensive to produce that plain-section, as-received un-butted chromo. I agree though; not sure how much this translates into a tangibly improved ride!

While not a fan of Sram stuff in general I do love love your Kona! How are you finding the groupset on it; any issues since you've bought it?

Whilst the frame on mine is unbranded steel, it is double butted, and pretty thick diameter stuff at that. I've a strong feeling, given Kona's heritage, that it's an old MTB frame updated to fit modern componentry. So whilst it hasn't the heritage or known properties of Reynolds, it's probably not gas pipe either. The value of Reynolds frames as you say, is in there known properties and reputation, I've owned a couple of Reynolds framed bikes and they are undeniably nice frames.

The SRAM groupset on my bike has been really good. I was completely on the fence about it when I bought the bike, I had no strong feelings either way about it. 1x systems do get a lot of stick on here, but I've really grown to love mine. On my 3 x 9 set up, there was a big hole in the middle of the rations, if you didn't change from big to middle at just the right point, you'd either end up suddenly grinding or spinning. With 1x there are no issues like that, it's so simple, click one way for harder gears and the other for easier. I've found myself changing gear much more often and find it fairly straightforward to keep a steady cadence. The stock gearing choice is a little high though. the 36t front chainring is a little too big and 34 would be ideal. However, touring in Slovenia I could have really done with a 28t, that was a bit of an oversight on my part and made life much more difficult than it needed to be.

I have struggled a little to adjust to changing gear with double tap, down changes are really simple, one click on the lever and down it goes, clean and precise. Upshifts however, are another thing, you need to push the lever past the click, but not too far, or you end up upshifting several cogs. You need to get a real feel for the precise point where the lever instigates the shift. The transmission has been super reliable though, I've not needed to adjust it once, just clean precise changes all this time.

Another downside is the cost of replacement, despite my best efforts though, the rear cassette is showing no signs of wear despite the abuse I've given it. I'm on my second chain, but the cassette is really, really tough. The Hydro brakes are also impressive, again in Slovenia they got a really good workout on some mega descents and worked impeccably throughout come rain or shine. I really couldn't contemplate anything other than hydro discs on a bike like this.

I do understand your preference for thru-axles though, later generations of my bike have them and they make wheel removal and replacement so much easier. With quick release I have a right old job trying to re-align the discs in the calipers every time and it's one improvement I'd love to have. Lastly, what the hell were SRAM thinking with the design of the cable fitment on the shifter? in order to change the cable, I need to remove the bar tape and then the lever completly from the bar to access the end of the cable, complete madness.

 

[Moon bunny]

The Flyer seems to have gone backwards, rear-facing stay-ends, no mudguards, and disc brakes so no flip-flop back wheel possible.

 

[Oldhippy]

Just seen the new 30 tourer picture and want one!

 

[wafter]

Great comparison Wafter. I'm shocked at the prices frankly. The backwards steps, downgrades and splitting of the spec across 5 models (plus the flat bar variants) leaves a bad taste in the mouth. The 853 frameset should include a carbon fork. Genesis used to sell a separate carbon fork for the Croix de Fer range, which looks like it made a return in 2019 as the "Genesis CGR1 one fork" at £350. To me this is a welcome upgrade choice, but not including it in the 853 framesets, even as an option is scandalous.
If it had to be this bike, on these specs and prices I'd probably be tempted to wait for the sales, build from a frameset or buy secondhand. Perhaps build from a frameset bought in the sales might be ideal. It's a shame there is no steel frame/carbon fork frameset option like with the Equilibrium Disc 725 12/12 and carbon fork (£950).

Thanks - seems we feel similar in many respects

As for pricing, sadly this appears to follow significant inflation across many consumer products; not just bikes. Genesis have never been cheap anyway and I'd agree that the smart money is on sale items.. I'd rarely consider paying the premium for the current MY if the outgoing model was similarly-specced and typically 15-20% cheaper.. of course we'll have to wait a while for these to come down in price!

I think you could do a lot with the frameset and come in under-budget relative to the built models, although it pays to remember that these are all RRP and many places will be selling them afor a fair bit less.

Funny you feel that way about the carbon fork - personally the one thing that puts me off the Equilibrium is the lack of steel fork option

Whilst the frame on mine is unbranded steel, it is double butted, and pretty thick diameter stuff at that. I've a strong feeling, given Kona's heritage, that it's an old MTB frame updated to fit modern componentry. So whilst it hasn't the heritage or known properties of Reynolds, it's probably not gas pipe either. The value of Reynolds frames as you say, is in there known properties and reputation, I've owned a couple of Reynolds framed bikes and they are undeniably nice frames.

The SRAM groupset on my bike has been really good. I was completely on the fence about it when I bought the bike, I had no strong feelings either way about it. 1x systems do get a lot of stick on here, but I've really grown to love mine. On my 3 x 9 set up, there was a big hole in the middle of the rations, if you didn't change from big to middle at just the right point, you'd either end up suddenly grinding or spinning. With 1x there are no issues like that, it's so simple, click one way for harder gears and the other for easier. I've found myself changing gear much more often and find it fairly straightforward to keep a steady cadence. The stock gearing choice is a little high though. the 36t front chainring is a little too big and 34 would be ideal. However, touring in Slovenia I could have really done with a 28t, that was a bit of an oversight on my part and made life much more difficult than it needed to be.

I have struggled a little to adjust to changing gear with double tap, down changes are really simple, one click on the lever and down it goes, clean and precise. Upshifts however, are another thing, you need to push the lever past the click, but not too far, or you end up upshifting several cogs. You need to get a real feel for the precise point where the lever instigates the shift. The transmission has been super reliable though, I've not needed to adjust it once, just clean precise changes all this time.

Another downside is the cost of replacement, despite my best efforts though, the rear cassette is showing no signs of wear despite the abuse I've given it. I'm on my second chain, but the cassette is really, really tough. The Hydro brakes are also impressive, again in Slovenia they got a really good workout on some mega descents and worked impeccably throughout come rain or shine. I really couldn't contemplate anything other than hydro discs on a bike like this.

I do understand your preference for thru-axles though, later generations of my bike have them and they make wheel removal and replacement so much easier. With quick release I have a right old job trying to re-align the discs in the calipers every time and it's one improvement I'd love to have. Lastly, what the hell were SRAM thinking with the design of the cable fitment on the shifter? in order to change the cable, I need to remove the bar tape and then the lever completly from the bar to access the end of the cable, complete madness.

Cool - as you suggest being Kona I'm sure your frames something better than gas pipe!

It's interesting to hear your thoughts on the components from an unbiased starting point; again it seems that you spend a lot more time off road than some, in which case 1x makes a lot more sense. I think it would really suck on a road bike though

I quite like the idea of double-tap but can appreciate that it's probably less foolproof than the Shimano system and I still manage to get that wrong sometimes

The Flyer seems to have gone backwards, rear-facing stay-ends, no mudguards, and disc brakes so no flip-flop back wheel possible.

A disc brake sounds a bit incongruous on a single-speed; am I legit in feeling this way? Didn't the flier used to be steel as well, or am I imagining that?

Just seen the new 30 tourer picture and want one!

Indeed - the TdF range seem to have come out of this update a lot better than many of the others and look really appealing