German wings 4U 9525

[nickyboy]

Didn't they pretty much nose dive as well because of it? Couldn't tell they were diving because it was dark and the everything the pilot did was counteracting everything the co pilot did? Or something like that? I heard tho that pilots receive extensive training about scenario now .

Rather the opposite. Aircraft have tubes on the outside called Pitot tubes, they measure velocity. On AF447 they froze up so the aircraft computers didn't have reliable data. In the confusion the pilot tried to ascend very quickly, believing the plane was decending. In ascending too quickly he caused the plane to stall. Once into a stall and falling to earth it is extremely difficult to regain control of the plane

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

What was weird was 8 mins of fairly rapid descent in a straight line with not a word from the crew ....

If you have ever watched any number of 'Air Crash Investigation', you'll realise that actually it isn't that unusual for a whole number of reasons. Personally, I reckon that if they weren't incapacitated somehow, they were fighting with the plane too much to respond. It does happen.

Basically, they will want to rectify the problem before informing ATC and potentially distract themselves and/or give a false alarm. In trying to fix the problem, they become so absorbed or disorientated to do anything else, even fix the problem!

 

[buggi]

Rather the opposite. Aircraft have tubes on the outside called Pitot tubes, they measure velocity. On AF447 they froze up so the aircraft computers didn't have reliable data. In the confusion the pilot tried to ascend very quickly, believing the plane was decending. In ascending too quickly he caused the plane to stall. Once into a stall and falling to earth it is extremely difficult to regain control of the plane

O I remember but I thought that the plane was telling them it was ascending so they were trying to level it out. But the plane wasn't ascending and so their actions were actually directing the plane towards the sea, and they realised too late??

 

[buggi]

I remember watching one where a plane stalled and crashed because they could not level it out after ascending. Turned out to be the weight of fat people. Not joking. They had put very fat people at the back of the plane, where the luggage was (small plane), and the combined weight at the back meant the plane couldn't level out . It carried on climbing until the air got too thin and then stalled and plummeted. No mechanical failure or pilot error.

 

[ianrauk]

I remember watching one where a plane stalled and crashed because they could not level it out after ascending. Turned out to be the weight of fat people. Not joking. They had put very fat people at the back of the plane, where the luggage was (small plane), and the combined weight at the back meant the plane couldn't level out . It carried on climbing until the air got too thin and then stalled and plummeted. No mechanical failure or pilot error.

I was on an internal USA flight between cities. Smallish prop plane. It was only about a third full. The pilot came out of his cabin and asked that some people move to balance out the plane as most of us were sitting on one side.

 

[nickyboy]

O I remember but I thought that the plane was telling them it was ascending so they were trying to level it out. But the plane wasn't ascending and so their actions were actually directing the plane towards the sea, and they realised too late??

According to the investigation report it was the opposite of this. The pilot responded incorrectly in the confusion and tried to get the plane to climb quickly. It did at first, but ran out of lift, stalled and fell

 

[nickyboy]

I was on an internal USA flight between cities. Smallish prop plane. It was only about a third full. The pilot came out of his cabin and asked that some people move to balance out the plane as most of us were sitting on one side.

I guess there were no preassigned seats? If you're ever on smallish plane with not many passengers that preassigns, you'll find everyone seated half way back, evenly spaced left and right. I presume for balance reasons also

 

[ianrauk]

I guess there were no preassigned seats? If you're ever on smallish plane with not many passengers that preassigns, you'll find everyone seated half way back, evenly spaced left and right. I presume for balance reasons also

No, was a budget 'sit anywhere' flight.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

According to the investigation report it was the opposite of this. The pilot responded incorrectly in the confusion and tried to get the plane to climb quickly. It did at first, but ran out of lift, stalled and fell

Its what I said in my response to Fab Foodie, the crew becomes so absorbed and/or disorientated by the situation that they won't always respond properly. Something as simple as speaking to ATC will be the least of their concerns at this time.

 

[buggi]

I guess there were no preassigned seats? If you're ever on smallish plane with not many passengers that preassigns, you'll find everyone seated half way back, evenly spaced left and right. I presume for balance reasons also

Maybe,I think they might have put this in place as the fix, after the event. I think some airlines also changed to a combined luggage + person weight. So the fatter you are, the less baggage allowance you have.

 

[buggi]

Its what I said in my response to Fab Foodie, the crew becomes so absorbed and/or disorientated by the situation that they won't always respond properly. Something as simple as speaking to ATC will be the least of their concerns at this time.

I think in this instance they had gone out of radio contact as they were over the sea. Bit like the Malaysian flight?

One thing about the most recent one is at least they can recover loved ones, not like the poor people who got shot down. That must have been terrible for the relatives and I was also really angry about the coverage, when the crews filmed the bodies too close and there was a little boy in a red t-shirt . The relatives could easily have identified him. I'm not sure they were all even returned?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Its what I said in my response to Fab Foodie, the crew becomes so absorbed and/or disorientated by the situation that they won't always respond properly. Something as simple as speaking to ATC will be the least of their concerns at this time.

Well from here where I've been watching this in 4 different regional and international news channels not one of the numerous experts from several different nations have proffered this kind of possible explanation. The general consensus is that the circumstances of the 8 mins controlled straight descent is strange.
Who knows?

I tend not to watch air-crash shows, I spend too much time on the things.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Well from here where I've been watching this in 4 different regional and international news channels not one of the numerous experts from several different nations have proffered this kind of possible explanation. The general consensus is that the circumstances of the 8 mins controlled straight descent is strange.
Who knows?

I tend not to watch air-crash shows, I spend too much time on the things.

I was talking about the Air France crash and then the current one at the end regarding th ATC bit. A bit of a cross post there!!

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

I think in this instance they had gone out of radio contact as they were over the sea. Bit like the Malaysian flight?

Oh yeah, that as well. I forgot that bit.

One thing about the most recent one is at least they can recover loved ones,

Well, fragments of them with probably a bit of DNA identification anyway. It looks like there isn't much left of anything.

and I was also really angry about the coverage, when the crews filmed the bodies too close and there was a little boy in a red t-shirt . The relatives could easily have identified him. I'm not sure they were all even returned?

I missed that it, but yes, there is enough, and then there is to much!

 

[Fab Foodie]

I was on an internal USA flight between cities. Smallish prop plane. It was only about a third full. The pilot came out of his cabin and asked that some people move to balance out the plane as most of us were sitting on one side.

That's quite common on part loaded 50 to 80 sweaters like Fokker 50s and the new small Bombardiers. They rearranged us before take-off on my last Kaliningrad - Berlin flight.
As. Fat bastarddd my position as human ballast is critical!