Handbags - acceptable language?

[matticus]

This pundit needs to realise he's possibly being listened to by thousands of people. If he wants to make manly, cool and derogative comments in his own home then that's fine, but to do it on TV is stupid. This has far greater meaning than "just" saying handbag on TV. Attitudes to women and indeed to other people in general are still deep in the gutter among a lot of blokes. This was the main reason I was unhappy that my stepson went and watched football matches aged 9. Hearing tripe like this is not a good start for an aspiring young man.

Yes, call me a prude or a snob, but having visited a lot of male-dominated trade outlets in recent weeks, the level of respect and cutomer service shown to me was abysmal. And I think it's all to do with young boys/men hearing tripe like I've just explained, coming out the mouths of people they look up to, like football pundits, and thinking it's ok to be a nobber. They think this "Jack the lad" aggresive humour is manly and cool, and to be honest it makes me sick.

... and yet I know plenty of football fans (and keen players) who are not racist, sexist or homophobic, and do not make "manly, cool and derogative comments". I'm pretty sure that if you follow high-profile footballers during 2020, you will be aware of some who make great role-models for sons/daughters. If there is a toxic culture, those players are embedded within it - not just journalists who happen to report on sport!

DO feel free to call out unpleasant banter - or deliberate insults - within these masculine areas; but don't project them onto people who are just acting within normal, reasonable parameters. Using the phrase "drama queen" is not going to corrupt young minds. Please focus on the genuine unpleasantness shown by a minority of overpaid sportsmen (and often their managers etc).

 

[Tripster]

Yes i have noticed same vis a vis females using some brain rather than just pure brawn to address a tricky mechanical problem -

And definitely many older gentlemen are very good and patient teachers of these skills - in fact that's who i had to learn from - at the time there were no female teachers of such subjects.

Shame that so many generations of perfectly capable women were held* back for so many centuries - and were endlessly told -
"These jobs are not for you - get back in the kitchen / nursery "

* Like some bright spark opined - Just as well we're only pursuing equality - not revenge

I read somewhere recently that women make excellent ultra athletes like Ultra running etc. One of the reasons is they don’t have the male testosterone and ego, a more methodical steady approach and this amongst many other reasons is why they are competing and beating men in ultra sports where brawn is not the be all and end all.
Its sad women where held back and great that’s changing but I do feel we go over board with what we can and cannot say. When I call my son a drama queen, it’s not because I wish to be derogatory to a group of people or liken his behaviour to that of someone I class inferior. It’s just a term of phrase that I am sure everyone has used. Now if I sat him down and explained it’s origins and demanded he follow these beliefs then that’s a different matter all together.

 

[Deleted User]

Not sure about the fragile male ego. Seems more and more women in the power industry, they make very good fitters as they seem to have more patience, more methodical and less grrrrr hit it with a hammer. I am told women make the best welders too.
The old guys I know just welcome them, happy to pass on knowledge and treat them the same. Likewise the women behave just the same

Women can be just as 'mischievous' as the blokes, as mentioned earlier my wife was a Theatre nurse, then Sister, for over 30yrs.

Around 20 yrs ago they had an innocent young fella start, Luke, naive and handsome complete with 'Sixpack' you can imagine the stick he got from a bunch of 30-55 year old 'seen it all' nurses!

Today he's still 'Young Lukey' albeit the sixpack has now gone and he himself is married with a couple of kids.

The point I'm trying to make is we all know if you're a so called 'role model' you have certain rules to follow but surely banter and having the craic needs to be promoted not quelled.

To the fella who was treated rudely at his suppliers, that's unprofessional at the very least but to think it's because he's heard somebody on the telly mention handbags and thought to himself ' I'll go to work and be a C**k to the next customer I see is stretching it a bit.

As I'm sure you won't be surprised I'm also a football Season Ticket holder, as is my 18 yr old Daughter.

 

[Landsurfer]

My sons a Drama Queen .... no..... thats Drag Queen ...... On reflection ...... Both.!!

Or


View: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wcfv9

 

[Deleted User]

* Like some bright spark opined - Just as well we're only pursuing equality - not revenge

Putting your State Pension age back to 67 to be the same as the Men was a bit of a Pi**er though I bet.

 

[Tripster]

Women can be just as 'mischievous' as the blokes, as mentioned earlier my wife was a Theatre nurse, then Sister, for over 30yrs.

Around 20 yrs ago they had an innocent young fella start, Luke, naive and handsome complete with 'Sixpack' you can imagine the stick he got from a bunch of 30-55 year old 'seen it all' nurses!

Today he's still 'Young Lukey' albeit the sixpack has now gone and he himself is married with a couple of kids.

The point I'm trying to make is we all know if you're a so called 'role model' you have certain rules to follow but surely banter and having the craic needs to be promoted not quelled.

To the fella who was treated rudely at his suppliers, that's unprofessional at the very least but to think it's because he's heard somebody on the telly mention handbags and thought to himself ' I'll go to work and be a C**k to the next customer I see is stretching it a bit.

As I'm sure you won't be surprised I'm also a football Season Ticket holder, as is my 18 yr old Daughter.

Exactly, it’s like a stand up comic, so they will have no material because everything will be banned. Can we not just take the pi** out of each other and get on with life

 

[Tripster]

My sons a Drama Queen .... no..... thats Drag Queen ...... On reflection ...... Both.!!

Or


View: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wcfv9

Are will still allowed to watch the brilliant Monty Python and love it as always ??

 

[Tripster]

He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy..girl..gender fluid..... nah not the same is it

 

[mudsticks]

Putting your State Pension age back to 67 to be the same as the Men was a bit of a Pi**er though I bet.

Yes a shame the guys couldn't be brought forward a few years really - given that life expectancy is lower for men.

But you'd best take that up with 'the powers that be'.

Exactly, it’s like a stand up comic, so they will have no material because everything will be banned. Can we not just take the pi** out of each other and get on with life

That's fine so long as you understand the difference between punching down, and punching up when it comes to p*ss taking...

The first is bullying - the second is satire .

if we're truly* amongst those with equal power - we can poke each other in the ribs with impunity -
- and of course we ourselves are an endless source of merriment.

* however that's hard to check up on in anonymous company such as here. so probs best to err on the side of caution I'd say .. .

 

[Tripster]

Yes a shame the guys couldn't be brought forward a few years really - given that life expectancy is lower for men.

But you'd best take that up with 'the powers that be'.



That's fine so long as you understand the difference between punching down, and punching up when it comes to p*ss taking...

The first is bullying - the second is satire .

if we're truly* amongst those with equal power - we can poke each other in the ribs with impunity -
- and of course we ourselves are an endless source of merriment.

* however that's hard to check up on in anonymous company such as here. so probs best to err on the side of caution I'd say .. .

Piss taking is bullying if you are intentionally trying to hurt, upset or cause distress to another be that man or women for yours or others amusement. I find that and what I refer to as vastly different and having been the victim of severe bullying at school I will not be guilty of it myself. Shockingly, as I am sure everyone likes to believe differently but when I was routinely beaten at lunch time, the ‘IT’ girls would think nothing of walking up and kicking a pointed shoe into my face, head, body and joining in....not so suppressed then
No, I mean piss taking for everyone’s enjoyment, relaxing and stop taking everything so literal. I have no intention of taking the P out of anyone on here of which I know no one or nothing about them

 

[Electric_Andy]

he's heard somebody on the telly mention handbags and thought to himself ' I'll go to work and be a C**k to the next customer I see is stretching it a bit.

Of course it is stretching it a bit my good fellow. It's funny that you thought that was what I meant. My point was that the attitudes of people, particularly but not limited to men, are a product of the last 100+ years of young men being told that if they have feelings then they're a p*ssy. If they treat someone kindly then they're a "gay". And many young men fall into the trap of spouting bollox and rudery all the time as they are fearful of doing anything else. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. But the more we hear it on telly, the more nomralised it becomes. My son is 8, he's a lovely thoughtful boy. I don't want him to think it normal that men who behave stupidly are referred to as pansies, queens, retards, handbags or anything esle thank you very much!

 

[mudsticks]

I read somewhere recently that women make excellent ultra athletes like Ultra running etc. One of the reasons is they don’t have the male testosterone and ego, a more methodical steady approach and this amongst many other reasons is why they are competing and beating men in ultra sports where brawn is not the be all and end all.
Its sad women where held back and great that’s changing but I do feel we go over board with what we can and cannot say. When I call my son a drama queen, it’s not because I wish to be derogatory to a group of people or liken his behaviour to that of someone I class inferior. It’s just a term of phrase that I am sure everyone has used. Now if I sat him down and explained it’s origins and demanded he follow these beliefs then that’s a different matter all together.

It might be an interesting conversation to have with your son though.

As to the origins of the phrase, what you mean by it, why other people say it, and what he thinks it means, what does it tell us about societies attitudes to certain groups of people, historically and nowadays.

Those sorts of questions, discussions, and findings out were a highlight of parenting for me.

Still are in fact - I'm still learning stuff from my kids all the time .. It's fascinating.

 

[Tripster]

It might be an interesting conversation to have with your son though.

As to the origins of the phrase, what you mean by it, why other people say it, and what he thinks it means, what does it tell us about societies attitudes to certain groups of people, historically and nowadays.

Yesss.... I told them yesterday their grandmas dog had to be put down. “Oh thats sad, can I have an apple”? “Can I have sweets”?
Maybe in a few years or so eh, let them enjoy been kids before burdening them with all that

 

[Deleted User]

I'm still learning stuff from my kids all the time .. It's fascinating.

Me too,

Lad works in a YOI so 18-21 yr olds and some of the people he comes across are the scum of the Earth, Daughter works in a primary School and some kids turn up hungry and dirty, parents couldn't give a t**s, the world is a tough place so you need to get the balance right.

 

[Landsurfer]

Me too,

Lad works in a YOI so 18-21 yr olds and some of the people he comes across are the scum of the Earth, Daughter works in a primary School and some kids turn up hungry and dirty, parents couldn't give a t**s, the world is a tough place so you need to get the balance right.

Pretty much exactly why 3 of my 4 grand kids live with me and Julie ........