HGVs and cyclists

[classic33]

OK let's see if we can get a little less OTT posts towards this particular HGV driver

As good as cycling is or isn't for people and the country, if people don't do it it can't. Regardless of any other factors.

@classic33 where did I say they should be tested as one unit, it was you that brought the separate test issue up saying
engine = rider and car = bike, I guess the local GP should be able to test a bike though, or the LBS take someones blood pressure
and check there heart.

So you would put someone in the way on a live test to see if the driver saw them or not and see how he/she reacted???

I really thought this had moved on..

You said that drivers should all be tested by the DVLA.
Cycle and rider are one unit, with the rider being the sole power unit in most cases. As I said, an MOT doesn't allow for seperate parts to be tested in seperate locations.

With regards the use of simulators, where are driving tests taken? If, as you have pointed out, you are not happy at driving on the roads. Don't do it. Don't sit the test, you'll never get a licence.
This asked simply because you seem keen to go down the simulation route, do you actually drive on the real roads? If you do, have they changed that much since you took your test that you think you'd fail under actual conditions? Where are test currently held.

 

[summerdays]

As for youtube searching @summerdays it really was in response to someone with a chip on there shoulder pointing out
some more 'London' facts. I know how many close calls there probably are, it's a shame you couldn't just have acted on the last
sentence of my post re tit for tat posting.

I really thought this had moved on..

Sorry I wasn't trying for tit for tat posting instead responding to one point you made, I thought it an interesting comment about using you tube videos of one wrong type of behaviour, and for balance was pointing out another. As a form of statistics it's deeply flawed by the numbers of each type of transport and how many are likely they are to post on you tube.

I am quite happy to state they are lots of good lorry drivers who probably aren't cyclists and that doesn't stop them from overtaking me courteously but as in all walks of life there are some that shouldn't be on the road. Problem is they are much bigger than me and their mistakes could affect me.

 

[Markymark]

OK let's see if we can get a little less OTT posts towards this particular HGV driver

As good as cycling is or isn't for people and the country, if people don't do it it can't. Regardless of any other factors.

@classic33 where did I say they should be tested as one unit, it was you that brought the separate test issue up saying
engine = rider and car = bike, I guess the local GP should be able to test a bike though, or the LBS take someones blood pressure
and check there heart.

So you would put someone in the way on a live test to see if the driver saw them or not and see how he/she reacted???

As for youtube searching @summerdays it really was in response to someone with a chip on there shoulder pointing out
some more 'London' facts. I know how many close calls there probably are, it's a shame you couldn't just have acted on the last
sentence of my post re tit for tat posting.

I really thought this had moved on..

Is pointing out that the most potentially dangerous vehicle on the road us driven in the majority of times illegally a chip on my shoulder? I say it shows how the industry and drivers on she whole don't give a sh1t abiut safety. What say you on the number of those driven illegally?

 

[Chris_Kn]

I said drivers with medical conditions, are tested by the DVLA in Liverpool or used to be. Plus when the vehicle consists of two parts human
and mechanical, it can't really be done by the same person unless your LBS wants to take your blood pressure. As for driving professionally
today no thanks, i saw the way things where going a few years ago and stopped. No longer worth the hassle and stress. Would I pass today
jesus @classic33 probably not because there is a whole world of difference between driving and driving to pass a test. As for simulators, pilots
use them F1 drivers use them. You know that if you put someone in harms way on a live test they could get hurt.

I do/did give a sh1t hence no accidents, I don't like guys like you shoving info down my throat as if you are are all high and mighty and
never done anything wrong. As for the numbers driven illegally, I'm surprised there isn't a lot more, as that is probably the tip of the iceberg.
No driver really wants to run illegal, from my time in the past the pressure comes from bosses and the clients they work for to make deliveries
on time. It really comes down to the fact you do it or you can walk down the road. Yes I've walked a few times well got a lift from mates and tossed
the keys in the field. But that was a time when drivers could just walk from one job and get another within 24hrs. Normally back then it was younger
drivers that didn't know any better.

 

[Markymark]

I'm not perfect. But if driving something that could and does kill hundreds yearly, I'd do that safely and legally

 

[mjr]

Are bikes expected to have the same type of sign on our back that says 'HGV drivers, stay back'?

I've ridden with this on before:

I've never seen stats about fatalities in London but would be interested to see what percentage is attributed to the lorry drivers themselves.

The Westminster council cycle fault study mentioned earlier in this discussion didn't distinguish lorry drivers from other motorists in its 68% motorists, 12% neither/both, 20% cyclist fault conclusion and there's not enough data in the report to split them. It should fairly simple (if tedious) to find out by using www.WhatDoTheyKnow.com to get the answer, if anyone wants to. I suspect you will need to request data from both the Met and the City police to get a full picture.

Cor, I really started something here eh - ?! Now just to add a little more fuel to the fire, there are SOME cyclists who do themselves no favours by cycling in dull / dark coloured outfits. Yes, I know what some of you will say, 'why should I have to look like something from the Mardis Gras festival when I use a bike' but it's common sense; the brighter you are, the more likely you are to be seen in time. Basis logic. And DON'T get me started on decent lights - !

So, won't use the search box to find a good past discussion of that and picks on a minority reason for wearing ordinary clothes. Why not quit before the broom wagon takes you?

On the MOT question, who's going to be doing it? Will it include the engine(the rider(s)), and will you as a driver be made to sit the same test?

Actually, aren't there are a few of each type who would fail an emissions test?

 

[classic33]

I said drivers with medical conditions, are tested by the DVLA in Liverpool or used to be. Plus when the vehicle consists of two parts human
and mechanical, it can't really be done by the same person unless your LBS wants to take your blood pressure. As for driving professionally
today no thanks, i saw the way things where going a few years ago and stopped. No longer worth the hassle and stress. Would I pass today
jesus @classic33 probably not because there is a whole world of difference between driving and driving to pass a test. As for simulators, pilots
use them F1 drivers use them. You know that if you put someone in harms way on a live test they could get hurt.

I do/did give a sh1t hence no accidents, I don't like guys like you shoving info down my throat as if you are are all high and mighty

You're in favour of both vehicle and driver/rider sitting seperate yearly tests then. If that is the case explain why the vehicle engine, which in the case of a pedal cycle is the rider, should be tested elsewhere.

As for simulators why are you happy to be tested in a virtual world, in order to drive in the real world. Driving for a test should be no different from your day to day driving, standards wise.

Simulators were introduced in F1 after a partial ban on actual testing. The actual test that allows the person the licence, has to be done in reatime, on the track. Airforces/airlines use them on the grounds of cost & safety. Smaller airlines, along with two international airlines still use an actual flight for in house retesting. Fail & they'll ground you, not some body appointed to test you.

In aircraft simulations, the RAF Typhoon can pull 15G, the F-35 has been recorded as pulling 39G.
The Commanche, in simulated conditions flew perfectly. In real life, not so well.

 

[Chris_Kn]

So @classic33 you would deliberately put someone in harms way to see if the person being tested saw them and reacted???
As without the 'live and dangerous" aspect it would be a pointless exercise, stick him/her on a simulator if they pass that put
them on the road for a 'live' awareness test.
As pointed out, it would mean the DVLA having tech staff at medical centres or vice versa.

You like to have your say, so "How would you improve the safety of cyclists" you have made it clear that you have the intellect
to sort it out. The forum is yours make your points..

 

[classic33]

So @classic33 you would deliberately put someone in harms way to see if the person being tested saw them and reacted???
As without the 'live and dangerous" aspect it would be a pointless exercise, stick him/her on a simulator if they pass that put
them on the road for a 'live' awareness test.
As pointed out, it would mean the DVLA having tech staff at medical centres or vice versa.

You like to have your say, so "How would you improve the safety of cyclists" you have made it clear that you have the intellect
to sort it out. The forum is yours make your points..

Same points you raised, and objected to the answers, were given to a group of MP's over five years ago. They've yet to get back with a single answer.

To use your point of if you don't like doing something, don't do. If you don't feel safe driving on the roads, don't do it.

You're stuck with two issues, cycle and rider are one unit when in use, only the one riderless cycle seen sofar. The cyclist is the powerplant(engine), how do you plan on testing the engine?

I've never said put anyone in harms way to see how they'd react to a person being tested. Just that all tests/retests be carried out in realtime conditions, something you seem to regard as dangerous yet perfectly safe to do once the test has been passed. You see no difference between before and after.

 

[Profpointy]

slightly lost my way in this, but are we really debating compulsory medicals for cyclists? (the "engine" of a bike)

 

[classic33]

slightly lost my way in this, but are we really debating compulsory medicals for cyclists? (the "engine" of a bike)

Seems to be what @Chris_Kn is in favour of, but he won't answer the question.

 

[Markymark]

Seems to be what @Chris_Kn is in favour of, but he won't answer the question.

Only an idiot would argue for that....

 

[classic33]

Only an idiot would argue for that....

Its for safety reasons, as far as I can tell.

 

[classic33]

It took over ten years to get changes made to the pedlec regulations to include quads in the current UK rules.
Any kneejerk reaction on cyclist registration won't help cyclists.

 

[Markymark]

It'll never happen. Our city roads are gridlocked and polluted. Cycling is the councils' answer.