HGVs and cyclists

[theclaud]

See post #134, peeps. No need to dance to this tune.

 

[classic33]

See post #134, peeps. No need to dance to this tune.

that'd be post #111, not seen since.

 

[classic33]

With the recent coverage of HGVs and cyclists in London, it's time to play devil's advocate. I believe myself to be reasonably qualified to observe on the situation as over the last forty years, I've driven cars, vans large and small, 7.5tonne, 18 tonne and 32 tonne HGVs, all in urban and rural situations. And I've been cycling urban and rural for the last twenty plus years - !
The problem is very much a two way thing; HGVs are large with restricted vision compared with a car or bike. If an HGV driver can see a cyclist, he / she can react accordingly. But if a cyclist rides / hovers in a blind spot, then there is potential for trouble. Mirrors are fine, but with five plus mirrors to have to scan, an HGV driver can't be watching them all all of the time. Many of the HGV drivers I talk to on a daily basis complain about the number of road users who think an HGV is as easy to control as a car. The main issue appears to be when an HGV needs to turn left, it will often have to swing over to the right in order to negotiate the turn. Even when the HGV has clearly signalled its intention to turn left in good time, cars and cyclists will often whizz up on the left between HGV and kerb, then wonder why they get trashed. It's happened to me as an HGV driver and I've seen it many times on the road. Many HGVs now have a sign on the back stating 'Cyclists, beware of passing on the inside' - it's there for a reason.
Sorry if this sounds HGV bias, but surely it's common sense to stay behind an HGV if it's there before you and if one comes up beside you at lights etc., let it get away first. Those few seconds delay will probably save your life. Following those two basic rules, in twenty years, the GLW and I have never had any issues with HGVs.

Have a gander at www.tfl.gov.uk/safer-lorry-scheme should you come back.

 

[flyingfifi]

I was on my cycle tour in june i was hit by a log lorry between oban and Lochgilphead the driver never stopped forced me into a 2 feet ditch i was on my own with full panniers front and back and tent it taking me ten minutes to get out of the ditch i don't see no one to help me all i remember seeing 3 big wheels hitting my wing mirror i tell you the make of the tyres that close it has knocked the conference out of me going onto roads still and if i do go on roads im in tears maybe one day i get there

 

[mjr]

I was on my cycle tour in june i was hit by a log lorry between oban and Lochgilphead

Just to make certain: had you passed the lorry on its left?

 

[flyingfifi]

Just to make certain: had you passed the lorry on its left?

No i was cycling along the main road going around a conrer when the lorry over taken me on the right his trailer got me he did not see me with a bright pink fluorescent jacket and yellow bib on bike with flyingfifi on tour on the back still donot stopped

 

[Chris_Kn]

Hey @classic33 Lets get something straight shall we. Your good self, had 2 posts in this thread prior to my posts. Both did nothing to put forward a solution. Since then all you have done is shoot your mouth of and still not put forward solutions.

Giving cyclists medicals is not something I put forward as there would be no need for it and it's kinda daft, if I did it was only after you had said about separating the bike from the rider.
which was a error on my part, You still seemingly want to put people in harms way before you'll accept the a simulator might be a way to help educate/re-educate HGV drivers, which is
where this thread had moved onto. Instead you seem to want to rake over long gone posts and pull out odd phrases. That fit your agenda, what ever that may be.

Even in the extreme as most of my earlier ones where it focused the attention towards trying to find a solution instead of just being yet another thread becoming the shortcomings of HGV's on British roads.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

a simulator might be a way to help educate/re-educate HGV drivers, which is
where this thread had moved onto.

But giving cyclists space is all basic stuff learned while getting a car license. Why should professional drivers require education on something that they had to know in order to get their license in the first place.

I don't believe that they don't know the danger they pose. It is negligence, that is causing deaths.

 

[Simpleton]

Hey @classic33 Lets get something straight shall we. Your good self, had 2 posts in this thread prior to my posts. Both did nothing to put forward a solution. Since then all you have done is shoot your mouth of and still not put forward solutions.

Giving cyclists medicals is not something I put forward as there would be no need for it and it's kinda daft, if I did it was only after you had said about separating the bike from the rider.
which was a error on my part, You still seemingly want to put people in harms way before you'll accept the a simulator might be a way to help educate/re-educate HGV drivers, which is
where this thread had moved onto. Instead you seem to want to rake over long gone posts and pull out odd phrases. That fit your agenda, what ever that may be.

Even in the extreme as most of my earlier ones where it focused the attention towards trying to find a solution instead of just being yet another thread becoming the shortcomings of HGV's on British roads.

 

[Markymark]

Hey @classic33Even in the extreme as most of my earlier ones where it focused the attention towards trying to find a solution instead of just being yet another thread becoming the shortcomings of HGV's on British roads.

The best solution would be to make HGVs safer by better visibility and safer by punishing illegality. Seeing as a substantial number of cyclists are killed by lorries passing and killing them or whilst driven on mobiles or by drivers who should not be on the road, this is more urgent. You don;t like it because it is your industry that behaves despicably. You just call it a 'chip on the shoulder' when pointed out.

You even agreed the illegality is rife. Yet you come on here about cyclists having tests. Foxtrot Oscar and get your house in order first.

 

[classic33]

Hey @classic33 Lets get something straight shall we. Your good self, had 2 posts in this thread prior to my posts. Both did nothing to put forward a solution. Since then all you have done is shoot your mouth of and still not put forward solutions.

Giving cyclists medicals is not something I put forward as there would be no need for it and it's kinda daft, if I did it was only after you had said about separating the bike from the rider.
which was a error on my part, You still seemingly want to put people in harms way before you'll accept the a simulator might be a way to help educate/re-educate HGV drivers, which is
where this thread had moved onto. Instead you seem to want to rake over long gone posts and pull out odd phrases. That fit your agenda, what ever that may be.

Even in the extreme as most of my earlier ones where it focused the attention towards trying to find a solution instead of just being yet another thread becoming the shortcomings of HGV's on British roads.

To which post do you refer? Then do a quick search of HGV, using my username. See what pops up.

You seem to misunderstand the fact that the rider on a pedal cycle is the power source(engine). Current regulations require the whole vehicle be tested, in one go. That includes the powerplant.
Yesterday I was articulate, now I'm shooting my mouth off, with no change in stance. Which is it?

Read the post about pedlec requirements, changed in April this year. Over nine years spent getting that change brought in, and not on my own either.

You want to be able to use a simulator for a retest, because the roads are too dangerous. But having passed the simulated retest, the same roads are no longer dangerous. Would you care to explain how that works?

 

[Chris_Kn]

But giving cyclists space is all basic stuff learned while getting a car license. Why should professional drivers require education on something that they had to know in order to get their license in the first place.

I don't believe that they don't know the danger they pose. It is negligence, that is causing deaths.

Phil, let's accept this as a fact. Once the 'accident' has happened it's too late to change that drivers ideas and thinking. By going down the road of regular re education
or not getting a license renewed or new one, would be a stark reminder that drivers need to be aware of more vulnerable road users. It isn't if only the 'negligent driver'
is dealt with. As not every driver would be aware that someone had been prosecuted.

According to form and previous posts illegality is getting punished. I actually don't a rats a*** if every HGV driver this side of the Euro tunnel was tested medical/driving
every 12 months and pulled every day Like I said the first few posts got focused the direction of the thread that tbh was floundering along going nowhere, things
have moved on. So @0-markymark-0 being so offensive does show a certain attitude..

@classic33 you have two posts only in this thread, I'm not really interested in how many threads you have been active in, you where not that active round this one.
THIS , "You seem to misunderstand the fact that the rider on a pedal cycle is the power source(engine)." Is just splitting hairs and being argumentative, if
that extreme was ever to come about it would be something totally new and require new rules. But I thought we had moved on from extremes.. The fact you
can't seem to put forward solid ideas only shoot down ones put forward probably constitutes as 'shooting ones mouth off' if you don't like that then try being more
constructive towards moving the thread forwards. In post #178 you are clearly given an opportunity to to put forward ideas you might have but you decided
not to, just to continue along the same lines.

@Simpleton not sure how I'm digging a hole.

Just because an ex HGV driver is trying to engage in some sort of dialogue I don't understand the why try and use me as a target.
But hey feel free, it does say a lot though.

 

[Markymark]

Phil, let's accept this as a fact. Once the 'accident' has happened it's too late to change that drivers ideas and thinking. By going down the road of regular re education
or not getting a license renewed or new one, would be a stark reminder that drivers need to be aware of more vulnerable road users. It isn't if only the 'negligent driver'
is dealt with. As not every driver would be aware that someone had been prosecuted.

According to form and previous posts illegality is getting punished. I actually don't a rats a*** if every HGV driver this side of the Euro tunnel was tested medical/driving
every 12 months and pulled every day Like I said the first few posts got focused the direction of the thread that tbh was floundering along going nowhere, things
have moved on. So @0-markymark-0 being so offensive does show a certain attitude..

@classic33 you have two posts only in this thread, I'm not really interested in how many threads you have been active in, you where not that active round this one.
THIS , "You seem to misunderstand the fact that the rider on a pedal cycle is the power source(engine)." Is just splitting hairs and being argumentative, if
that extreme was ever to come about it would be something totally new and require new rules. But I thought we had moved on from extremes.. The fact you
can't seem to put forward solid ideas only shoot down ones put forward probably constitutes as 'shooting ones mouth off' if you don't like that then try being more
constructive towards moving the thread forwards. In post #178 you are clearly given an opportunity to to put forward ideas you might have but you decided
not to, just to continue along the same lines.

@Simpleton not sure how I'm digging a hole.

Just because an ex HGV driver is trying to engage in some sort of dialogue I don't understand the why try and use me as a target.
But hey feel free, it does say a lot though.

Because the massive elephant in the room is that the illegality and carelessness if from the hgv ubdustry not the cyclists.

 

[Simpleton]

Phil, let's accept this as a fact. Once the 'accident' has happened it's too late to change that drivers ideas and thinking. By going down the road of regular re education
or not getting a license renewed or new one, would be a stark reminder that drivers need to be aware of more vulnerable road users. It isn't if only the 'negligent driver'
is dealt with. As not every driver would be aware that someone had been prosecuted.

According to form and previous posts illegality is getting punished. I actually don't a rats a*** if every HGV driver this side of the Euro tunnel was tested medical/driving
every 12 months and pulled every day Like I said the first few posts got focused the direction of the thread that tbh was floundering along going nowhere, things
have moved on. So @0-markymark-0 being so offensive does show a certain attitude..

@classic33 you have two posts only in this thread, I'm not really interested in how many threads you have been active in, you where not that active round this one.
THIS , "You seem to misunderstand the fact that the rider on a pedal cycle is the power source(engine)." Is just splitting hairs and being argumentative, if
that extreme was ever to come about it would be something totally new and require new rules. But I thought we had moved on from extremes.. The fact you
can't seem to put forward solid ideas only shoot down ones put forward probably constitutes as 'shooting ones mouth off' if you don't like that then try being more
constructive towards moving the thread forwards. In post #178 you are clearly given an opportunity to to put forward ideas you might have but you decided
not to, just to continue along the same lines.

@Simpleton not sure how I'm digging a hole.

Just because an ex HGV driver is trying to engage in some sort of dialogue I don't understand the why try and use me as a target.
But hey feel free, it does say a lot though.

Because in a nutshell your contribution to this thread has been:-

1. Post a load of assertions regarding the way cyclists ride
   
   
2. Ignore all rebuttals made by other members instead chipping in with the odd strawman and non sequitur
   
   
3. Post another load of assertions, again the onus being on the cyclist
   
   
4. As point 2

It’s tedious. Please stop.

 

[Markymark]

My guess is that its someone on some trucknet type forum who is getting all the grievances from other HGV drivers and trying to make us change tom compensate for their awful driving attitudes.. I'm guessing it's the same HGV drivers who break the alw constantly in their 20 tonne trucks but it;s difficult to say.

The points raised are never answered, just dismissed as 'chips on shoulders', or 'we have moved on'.

The worry is that this is a glimpse into the mindset of the haulage industry.

"We're dangerous so you must stay away."
"But why don't you stop being dangerous?"
"Because it's not us who are getting killed so tough luck. We'll just carry on"