Hill intervals: Improve your climbing

[Ningishzidda]

The fact you are over coming gravity makes no difference! On the flat you are overcoming aerodynamic drag.............. it really makes no difference what force you are over coming, so long as you are putting out the same power.

The point re. pedalling style, you would have to clarify, the "style" is the same, the pedals are going around, you may adjust your position on the bike a bit though! I don't deny this.

I am struggling with this bolded part! Yes it can be done on the flat, not sure how you conclude it cant.

Spoze it can be don't on the flat. Buy a bike with extended forks.

What you fail to realise is the 'nose up' attitude of a bike on a hill incline. The rider's whole body will be in a different position with relation to the headset and handlebars. Try assuming the same position on the flat and you will end up supporting your upper body weight with your arms and not using it to stamp on the pedal.
The only place to hill train is up a hill.

 

[Rob3rt]

Spoze it can be don't on the flat. Buy a bike with extended forks.

Clarify what you are refering to....... you seemed to be saying one can not jump out of the saddle on the flat. You can.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Same on the flat or a hill, when you fail to maintain power, you slow down, just the same, the only difference is the speed differential, on the flat you drop from 25 to 22, on the hill from 12 mph to 9mph. Mentally it is different (a little bit because people talk themselves out of hills), physically, it is not so different.

A cyclist can blow up on the flat and continue quite easily by coasting or pedaling lightly. Going up a steep incline this is not possible. That is a distinct difference.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

I train on the fens, it'd the epitome of flat. The very opposite of where I race/TT the Alps. Come race day push out exactly the same power for exactly the same durations I would on the fens. When a group of my Italian friends came to the UK & we rode together guess what, our relative performance levels where nearly the same. (Actually this isn't quite true, my performance increases relative to theirs, as expected due to my higher absolute power given similar we all have W/kg & I'm heavy)

You try to tell me I need hills to climb I say you don't because my training & performances say I don't.

I am not telling you that you need to. Are you trying to tell me that rider A who trains on hills day in day out will be no better off than rider B who trains on the flat??

 

[black'n'yellow]

Are you trying to tell me that rider A who trains on hills day in day out will be no better off than rider B who trains on the flat??

It's quite likely that will be the case. Out of those two riders (assuming similarities in weight), the best climber will be the one with the best sustainable power, regardless of where they train.

 

[Rob3rt]

A cyclist can blow up on the flat and continue quite easily by coasting or pedaling lightly. Going up a steep incline this is not possible. That is a distinct difference.

Either way the interval is over, once you coast or pedal lightly, you may as well be stopping or riding very slowly up the hill, it makes no difference. If you coast, you may still be travelling, but you are no longer training, just like if you stop on a hill.

 

[Rob3rt]

It's quite likely that will be the case. Out of those two riders (assuming similarities in weight), the best climber will be the one with the best sustainable power, regardless of where they train.

The one with the best watt/kg (for the required duration of the particular climb) will be the better performer, if 2 riders have the same sustainable power for the climbs duration, the lightest one will get to the top 1st. In basic terms.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

^^ got to agree with GrasB here. I live in a very hilly area - I could ride 5-mile, 1000ft climbs every day if I wanted. Ironically, mostly I train on the flat - or at least the flattest routes I can find. Here comes an anecdote...

Last year I significantly improved my hill climbing. I didn't improve it by riding up hills. I improved it by increasing my sustainable power and aerobic threshold. On the flat.

Or on the turbo trainer to increase power and aerobic performance. Or by losing weight. All help going up hills. You will not learn how to climb hills though by riding on the flat. You can train to be a stronger cyclist in many different departments in many different ways but to learn ones style and own technique, one would have to learn by doing. Not simulating.

 

[Ningishzidda]

To simulate a hill while riding along the flat, the cyclist can artificially raise the front end of the bike, or, command gravity to vector from the rear.

 

[montage]

I am not telling you that you need to. Are you trying to tell me that rider A who trains on hills day in day out will be no better off than rider B who trains on the flat??

Yes, if putting out the same effort - technically.

Though I'll say riding on steep slopes does change the game a bit - different body position and cadence etc - as well as pulling on the bars and stability on the bike.

But theory and reality are different, if you want to get better at eating as many pickles as possible in a minute, practice eating as many pickles as possible in a minute. You learn your limits and "technique" as well as how you handle the situation. If you want to get better at climbing, climb more and get liposuction. If you want to get better at arguing over the internet, go take up ballet.

 

[black'n'yellow]

The one with the best watt/kg (for the required duration of the particular climb) will be the better performer, if 2 riders have the same sustainable power for the climbs duration, the lightest one will get to the top 1st. In basic terms.

yep - that's putting it better than I did..

 

[montage]

To simulate a hill while riding along the flat, the cyclist can artificially raise the front end of the bike, or, command gravity to vector from the rear.

If you do this and have those fancy carbon aero winged road bars, would you take off?

 

[Rob3rt]

I have no opinion on which is better, flat or hill training, I like the hills, it is more interesting to ride in the hills, but I don't necessarily think it is better training. For all bu the steepest of hills, they are probably approx equivalent provided you push the same power.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Yes, if putting out the same effort - technically.

Though I'll say riding on steep slopes does change the game a bit - different body position and cadence etc - as well as pulling on the bars and stability on the bike.

But theory and reality are different, if you want to get better at eating as many pickles as possible in a minute, practice eating as many pickles as possible in a minute. You learn your limits and "technique" as well as how you handle the situation. If you want to get better at climbing, climb more and get liposuction. If you want to get better at arguing over the internet, go take up ballet.

I should have explained it like this...........

 

[black'n'yellow]

To simulate a hill while riding along the flat, the cyclist can artificially raise the front end of the bike, or, command gravity to vector from the rear.

or to simulate riding up a +45deg gradient, just pull a wheelie.