Hitting a pedestrian

[KneesUp]

Do you live in Sweden?

I've been there once, and I didn't die.

Why do you ask?

 

[Archie_tect]

Nothing worse than indecisive people, the ones that hover. You know they want to cross but they either:
- wait until the road is clear of any visible traffic,
- wait until all vehicles have come to a complete stop at the crossing... or,
- dither about and then blindly make a dash for it without making eye contact.
My reaction when seeing people standing on the crossing is to stop and let them cross regardless, sometimes you then discover that they are just standing there with no intention of crossing but then at least you haven't knocked anyone down, so win-win.

 

[Dan B]

The point, I thought, is about the force required to stop and that is directly linked to mass with F=ma. You have calculated the acceleration, but to get the force (ie how hard to brake), you'll need the mass too.

Well, OK, a=0.7 and m=80 (or so) and you've practically provided your own answer. But I don't know what you want to do with it.

 

[Dan B]

The vast majority of cars waiting at side roads do not pull out in front of cyclists either, but if you cycle often enough or far enough you have a reasonable chance nonetheless of encountering one of the tiny minority that do. I bet most of us act accordingly

 

[Origamist]

If anyone's interested, there's a rather good explanation of the current case law here.

That makes for an interesting read, thanks.

It certainly seems the case that m’learned friends in the Court of Appeal are rather more forgiving than the cycle-chatters who populate the commuting forum (which is predicated on wise owls hooting their counsel of perfection with regard to the "mistakes" of fellow cyclists).

Back to the OP, I hit a child and damaged myself, my clothes and my bike a few years ago (the kid, thankfully, escaped unhurt). It did not even occur to me to seek compensation as I felt partially responsible. I think the chances of the cyclist getting any money are vanishingly small.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Do you live in Sweden?

Not Sweden, but just over the other side of the Gulf of Finland in Helsinki they are very disciplined about use of crossings. Unlike here where we stroll nonchalantly out on a red signal if we think that the likelihood of instant death has fallen to a merely moderate level.

I remember waiting at a pedestrian crossing in Helsinki for ages. There is no traffic in sight. Red man. Wait. Wait. Still red. Still no traffic. Still red. Wait ... Eventually my nerve snapped and I felt I just had to cross, so I strolled out into the road. Immediately a tram appeared, as if from nowhere, bearing down on me, and I had to sprint out of the way - feeling the Hard Stares of the waiting Finns on me as I did so.

Another thing I found was that the Finnish cyclists don't tolerate peds, even lost English ones, wandering aimlessly around on the cycle paths in Helsinki.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I take you know the exact circumstances then.

I think you say "Beam me down Scotty" and it goes from there.

 

[.stu]

When someone is standing at a crossing and wanting to cross, their behaviour is highly predictable. They are extremely likely to cross the road at some point.

Yes, but given that they would need to walk 20 yards to reach the crossing, regardless of which direction they came from (there are no houses or shops here so only side roads), and there is no barrier in the middle of the dual carriageway to prevent them from crossing straight opposite whichever side road they came out of (which is what 99% of people do), it seems odd that, having made the effort to walk to the crossing, he decided to not use it and cross anyway.

 

[nickyboy]

Not Sweden, but just over the other side of the Gulf of Finland in Helsinki they are very disciplined about use of crossings. Unlike here where we stroll nonchalantly out on a red signal if we think that the likelihood of instant death has fallen to a merely moderate level.

I remember waiting at a pedestrian crossing in Helsinki for ages. There is no traffic in sight. Red man. Wait. Wait. Still red. Still no traffic. Still red. Wait ... Eventually my nerve snapped and I felt I just had to cross, so I strolled out into the road. Immediately a tram appeared, as if from nowhere, bearing down on me, and I had to sprint out of the way - feeling the Hard Stares of the waiting Finns on me as I did so.

Another thing I found was that the Finnish cyclists don't tolerate peds, even lost English ones, wandering aimlessly around on the cycle paths in Helsinki.

Same in Hong Kong. They seem to have out-Britished the British. I'm somewhat embarrassed to sneak across on a red there, under the watchful gaze of the locals from their moral high ground

 

[John the Monkey]

Same in Hong Kong. They seem to have out-Britished the British. I'm somewhat embarrassed to sneak across on a red there, under the watchful gaze of the locals from their moral high ground

We have crossings in Crewe that simply don't change, even if you continually press the button in a frustrated sort of a way.

We also have one that is impassable when the green man does show his face, because drivers can't be bothered to leave the crossing clear as they queue to enter the station roundabout. I waited with a wheelchair user for four changes, on one memorable occasion, until our motorised overlords finally deigned to leave us space to cross.

The obverse is, I suppose, the almost routine running of red lights on the pedestrian phase at some junctions. Manchester's Fairfield Road/London Road junction (by Picadilly station) is particularly bad for this, and I pity the inattentive newcomer to Manchester who expects the green man to indicate that the cars, busses and vans will have bothered to stop.

 

[Learnincurve]

I don't understand this thread, if someone walks out into the road without looking it's their fault. Look right, look left, look right again. Yes anyone already on the road be they a bike or a HGV has to be aware that a pedestrian standing on the pavement may be about to cross and prepare accordingly if they are able to, but if they go from walking down the street to walking across the road without warning then they should consider themselves lucky it was a bike and not a lorry + national selection in action.

 

[John the Monkey]

...but if they go from walking down the street to walking across the road without warning then they should consider themselves lucky it was a bike and not a lorry + national selection in action.

Define "without warning".

Admittedly, it's anecdote, but in the example from my ride last night, it was fairly obvious what was going to happen (if you were watching the road, rather than just the carriageway) - the pedestrians were still at fault, but what the hey, I lost a couple of seconds (if that) of journey time, and got to enjoy not having road rash for the rest of the week.

 

[Learnincurve]

Define "without warning".

It's as I said, walking out without stopping and looking. If someone is stationary and facing the road you know that they may very well step right out and have a chance to ready yourself. If they are clearly looking left and right you also know that they may very well step right out because everyone has moments of the stupid sometimes so you ready yourself- how many times have you looked at your watch and then realised 5 seconds later that you forgot to actually read the time. Someone just blindly walking off the pavement and into traffic in front of you is an idiot and there is no way you could have known they were going to do that.

Either way, it's a road, and it's on the pedestrian to check and see if anything is coming, we don't live in a third world country where pedestrians cross the road when and where they like without looking and die all the time, we follow the green cross code here. Yes cyclists should always assume that people are stupid but no court in the land would convict a cyclist if a pedestrian walked out into the road in front of them (unless it was on a level crossing or whatnot) and nor would they convict a car, van or lorry driver either.

 

[John the Monkey]

It's as I said, walking out without stopping and looking.

Fits the example I gave. The warnings were mostly in the way they were messing about on the pavement.

I'm not sure how the truck driver felt about it (like I say, he didn't seem to alter speed at all) or how he'd have felt had he hit the one who barely made it to the other side ahead of him, but I was pretty glad to be spared another scrape along the asphalt, personally.

Similarly, there's a stretch up in town a lot of cyclists complain about "peds" on. Traffic doesn't move quickly (save for in the bike lane) and folk will often cross in gaps left by stationary traffic. The warning doesn't come from them stopping and looking, it comes from seeing for likely gaps in the traffic, and watching the whole road, not just the bit where the cars are.

Another example - I've seen someone hit crossing further up than that stretch, going through a gap left by a bus (to the right of the bike lane). The pedestrian was screened from sight by the bulk of the bus, but the fact that the bus was stationary while traffic ahead was moving, and that an adjacent traffic island (the other side of the bus from the bike lane) makes this a likely place to cross meant that I'd already reduced speed and covered my brakes. The rider ahead maintained speed, and ran into a pedestrian crossing in the gap left by the bus. I was able to avoid running into both of them, and stop to help out. The rider ahead could probably have avoided the collision, or at least collided with less speed, and probably had a more comfortable ride home than they did.

I don't discount the possibility that someone could genuinely "come from nowhere" entirely, but more often than not, the signs are there for you to see - it's a useful bit of roadcraft to know, if you like your skin where it is

 

[Learnincurve]

[QUOTE 3162238, member: 45"]..and it's on the driver to check that there's nothing in front of them. They're not allowed to run people over.[/QUOTE]

But a pedestrian walking right out is pretty much the same as someone opening a car door into you at times. I've only ridden in heavily built up pedestrian areas twice and twice have I had people check to see if anything was coming, look right at me and cross anyway. Once was a old lady with a trolly the other was a pack of people with a pram. It's a road, it's my right of way by law. I could have ridden right into them but I didn't because I'm not an arse, it still does not make them any less obnoxious.

I'm sorry but I have absolutely zero sympathy for anyone if they get hurt because they were not paying attention. It's all a big symptom of a law suit nation and nanny culture. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions any more and can't bare the thought that they might be in the wrong. These days it's: "OMG did you hear dave fell off his ladder!" "OMG!! is he hurt!! He should put a claim in against the ladder maker for that!" 20 years ago it would be "Dave fell off his ladder!", "lol what a twunk is he ok?"