Home improvement advice
- Thread starter User
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
A typical arrangement is the architect takes an agreed % of the overall job assuming he's supervising the build too.
A good way of organising is for the architect to do the plans, and a schedule of works which lists every work-item.
The builder then does an itemised quote against that, with "provisional sums' down for certain other items, eg foundations, as you can't really tell how deep you need to go till you start digging.
Each month, the architect then ticks each item saying 25% complete or whatever - let's say the walls are up to the heigh of the window, but there's no window in it yet - so window is 25% complete. Window in but not glazed 50% say. The builder can then bill sensibly for work so far. Also, if you need extra work, or you change your mind (best avoided), then there's a scale of charges up front. Makes it easier to avoid arguments, helps the builder's cash flow, and avoids you stumping up a load of money without clarity of what you've got for it.
Even though you are paying the architect to supervise, I would also keep a very close eye on every item. Also double check the schedule before signing - there will be mistakes, and although in theory, there'll be someone responsible, in practice you will end up paying one way or another.
Fees for planning permission - dunno, but will be trivial in the greater scheme of things.
The job will cost more than the original estimate, and there will be problems, which you will end up paying for, but by following the above scheme, it should be within bounds, and a horror story shouldn't happen.
The plan of works thing is the single most important thing. That and having a basically competent builder and architect
A good way of organising is for the architect to do the plans, and a schedule of works which lists every work-item.
The builder then does an itemised quote against that, with "provisional sums' down for certain other items, eg foundations, as you can't really tell how deep you need to go till you start digging.
Each month, the architect then ticks each item saying 25% complete or whatever - let's say the walls are up to the heigh of the window, but there's no window in it yet - so window is 25% complete. Window in but not glazed 50% say. The builder can then bill sensibly for work so far. Also, if you need extra work, or you change your mind (best avoided), then there's a scale of charges up front. Makes it easier to avoid arguments, helps the builder's cash flow, and avoids you stumping up a load of money without clarity of what you've got for it.
Even though you are paying the architect to supervise, I would also keep a very close eye on every item. Also double check the schedule before signing - there will be mistakes, and although in theory, there'll be someone responsible, in practice you will end up paying one way or another.
Fees for planning permission - dunno, but will be trivial in the greater scheme of things.
The job will cost more than the original estimate, and there will be problems, which you will end up paying for, but by following the above scheme, it should be within bounds, and a horror story shouldn't happen.
The plan of works thing is the single most important thing. That and having a basically competent builder and architect
threebikesmcginty
Corn Fed Hick...
- Location
- ...on the slake
There's a basic formula for costing, whatever you think it might cost double it.
Get a professional in to draw it up, they can cost it and apply for planning. They should be able to recommend a builder too. Initially they'll be able to give you an idea of all the professional fees involved.
Get a professional in to draw it up, they can cost it and apply for planning. They should be able to recommend a builder too. Initially they'll be able to give you an idea of all the professional fees involved.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
It is a massive hassle and intrusion and you and yours will bicker, even fight at times. Accept that upfront and believe me, you'll love it in the end. Allow lots of family input so everyone can have a say in the design and allow them all to have little bits of what they want.
Be strict with the builder but remain on a good footing. Don't gloss over small problems and deviations but don't micromanage the builder. Get to understand the process and the sequence of steps.
Always get three quotes and insist the builder follows a similar regime. Builders don't care how much their regular supplier charges them (you) and don't like buying outside of their circle of acquaintances who have by now learnt that he doesn't ask for discount and doesn't shop around.
Be strict with the builder but remain on a good footing. Don't gloss over small problems and deviations but don't micromanage the builder. Get to understand the process and the sequence of steps.
Always get three quotes and insist the builder follows a similar regime. Builders don't care how much their regular supplier charges them (you) and don't like buying outside of their circle of acquaintances who have by now learnt that he doesn't ask for discount and doesn't shop around.
Damn it's a big upheaval. We had a loft conversion done. Be prepared for a good four to six months of mess.
Speak to a builder first he will tell you what will be allowed as a permitted development. But as you say other houses have had extensions done then it shouldn't be a problem. Your builder will also know and recommend an architect that they work with.
Visit your neighbours who have had the extension done to have a look at the work and if they would recommend their builder.
Speak to a builder first he will tell you what will be allowed as a permitted development. But as you say other houses have had extensions done then it shouldn't be a problem. Your builder will also know and recommend an architect that they work with.
Visit your neighbours who have had the extension done to have a look at the work and if they would recommend their builder.
We have done a few like this and the last time was a complete new build, we have each time phoned planning for a short appointment and popped in for a chat to run the idea past them. A rough drawing is often enough for the to give an indication of whether it is a complete no no or not.
I love projects like this and have one on the go at the moment.
I love projects like this and have one on the go at the moment.
subaqua
What’s the point
- Location
- Leytonstone
4 months ! Kin ell how big is your loft !
Ours started on 9th September 2011 when scaffold went up and we finished painting end of October , stair carpet went in mid November .
Kin hell that's over quick. We did though have the rest of the house redecorated too due to all the doors having to be replaced with fire doors
When i built our extension years back, i had the plans drawn up and submitted, once approved you have a certain amount of time to start (3 years?) i think it was.
You notify the district surveyor (DS) with a start date, he/she will pop down and tell you to dig the foundations and then stop, call him for another visit, You'll then get approval to build to damp proof course level, another visit for the DS arranged, and it's build to roof level... DS again after roof construction. Then it's the final inspection for completion. That's how it was with me building my own.
You notify the district surveyor (DS) with a start date, he/she will pop down and tell you to dig the foundations and then stop, call him for another visit, You'll then get approval to build to damp proof course level, another visit for the DS arranged, and it's build to roof level... DS again after roof construction. Then it's the final inspection for completion. That's how it was with me building my own.
threebikesmcginty
Corn Fed Hick...
- Location
- ...on the slake
You're really lucky, the planning here couldn't have been more unhelpful when I went to see them.
Tell you're neighbours what you're up to as well, I went to see all of mine with the plans and talked them through it. We converted a bungalow into a house, the only one in a close of bungalows and we didn't get a single objection.
I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
- Location
- Sunny Ashton-under-Lyne
This is something how it worked for me too.
Did a large loft conversion and sizeable single storey side extension started in 2012 and finished in 2013. Popped in to the council planning office with my initial scale sketches of how I wanted to build a two storey side extension with hipped roof. They knocked that on the head straight away and suggested single storey and loft would be allowed. They then suggested an architect that they worked with a lot and did this kind of thing. Using 'their' architect (they were keen to stress it was not a recommendation or endorsement
) simplified a lot of things as there was a historical relationship between architect and planning officers so many things just got rubber stamped due to the trust between the two parties. The architect fees were also surprisingly reasonable due to the fact he was semi-retired but appeared to be doing the job almost fulltime just to avoid the boredom of retirement.Key points:
- Be polite and reasonable with the planning office. You want/need them onside and IME there is no need for a them'n'us attitude. Basically they want an easy life and if anything kicks off in future they need to show they followed the rules or had a damned good reason not to.
- Be prepared to compromise but don't sacrifice the objectives of the build. Do you really want to fight Planning/neighbours/material science to squeeze in a 25ft cinema room when 23ft is all that is allowable/possible and will be perfectly adequate if you can swallow your pride and stubbornness?
- It will cost slightly* more than they say.
- It will take slightly* longer than they say.
- Follow recommendations. Talk to previous customers, view previous projects.
- Don't skimp unnecessarily. Cash flow might be tight for the next 12-24 months but many of the things you fit now will be with you for the next 20yrs or more so that bargain bathroom suite might not be so great in 3 or 4yrs time when it needs replacing.
If you do go ahead you will inevitably reach a point when you feel like all your energy is spent, morale is rockbottom, problems are piling up and you will be questioning your sanity as to why you even contemplated starting the project. Don't give up. Afterwards you may feel like you never want to go through it again but at least you will have achieved what you wanted and can now sit back and enjoy the rewards.
Beebo
Firm and Fruity
- Location
- Hexleybeef
We did a ground floor extension 2 years ago.
We employed a surveyor on a fixed fee to draw up plans and obtain the planning permission.
We then used the drawings to obtain 3 quotes.
The cost all in was just shy of £70,000, what surprised us was the spread of quotes, one was almost double the others. I have added some photos to give you an idea, but we added a study, shower room, utitity and large kitchen living room.
Oh, and when we watch those diy tv shows the prices they quote are always way under the actual market cost.
We employed a surveyor on a fixed fee to draw up plans and obtain the planning permission.
We then used the drawings to obtain 3 quotes.
The cost all in was just shy of £70,000, what surprised us was the spread of quotes, one was almost double the others. I have added some photos to give you an idea, but we added a study, shower room, utitity and large kitchen living room.
Oh, and when we watch those diy tv shows the prices they quote are always way under the actual market cost.
Attachments
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
Typed from the middle of a building site...
Our plans were drawn up three years ago by the architect. It then took three years and countless visits from builders, 80% of whom never even got back to us, and the other 20% were split between "site is too difficult*, so no ta" and "site is too difficult so here is 25% - 150% ott estimate" before we found a builder prepared to do it. (and then it is a risk - he is young and this is his first major project after leaving his Dad's building company to strike out on his own).
Building Regs have all manner of tricks up their sleeves - our central heating boiler has had to be moved to the loft**, ffs, to comply with the rules, and then there are the usual surprises when you find a floor joist is rotten (leaking shower), a lintel is missing bodger builder from before us, or the Southern Water drains are 10m closer to the house than shown on the Southern Water plans (Meaning wait 12 weeks and get SW to move the drains at an extra cost of several thousand pounds or build the extension .5m shorter than planned. Ssssh! Don't tell the architect, we are going with the latter.)
tlh and I have a good working understanding; any key decisions on the build, e.g. replace that joist or repair it (building control says 'up to you', I get the casting vote, any key decisions on the fit out, she gets the casting vote (tbh I could care less, I've already picked the range that is going in the relocated kitchen which is all I care about), otherwise she is queen of design, and I am king of finances/paying for it. One couple we dearly love fell out with their architect who was pm'ing their build, great architect useless spineless PM, then when they tookover PMing it themselves, they fell out with th ebuilder - I think they were wrong to try to go for a fixed price build - and once it was done, she loved it and he had fallen out of love with the house and wanted to sell it and move on. They split up over it. She bought him out. Tragic.
Luckily I work away from home so am spared living on-site much of the time. We have four working adults round ours, the joys of the boomerang generation, so it is tough on the other three, and tlh comes to cph as often as possible so as to avoid the noise and the dust as much as possible.
...right. I'm about to go and use the new shower that was installed last week
*three storey terraced house, rear extension, only rear access is a narrow alleyway between us and next door, no on-street parking, only just, and I mean just, enough room out front for a skip, loads of demo work to do both internal and external, et cetera, et cetera.
**but wowsers it makes for a powerful shower now the boiler is above the bathroom!
Our plans were drawn up three years ago by the architect. It then took three years and countless visits from builders, 80% of whom never even got back to us, and the other 20% were split between "site is too difficult*, so no ta" and "site is too difficult so here is 25% - 150% ott estimate" before we found a builder prepared to do it. (and then it is a risk - he is young and this is his first major project after leaving his Dad's building company to strike out on his own).
Building Regs have all manner of tricks up their sleeves - our central heating boiler has had to be moved to the loft**, ffs, to comply with the rules, and then there are the usual surprises when you find a floor joist is rotten (leaking shower), a lintel is missing bodger builder from before us, or the Southern Water drains are 10m closer to the house than shown on the Southern Water plans (Meaning wait 12 weeks and get SW to move the drains at an extra cost of several thousand pounds or build the extension .5m shorter than planned. Ssssh! Don't tell the architect, we are going with the latter.)
tlh and I have a good working understanding; any key decisions on the build, e.g. replace that joist or repair it (building control says 'up to you', I get the casting vote, any key decisions on the fit out, she gets the casting vote (tbh I could care less, I've already picked the range that is going in the relocated kitchen which is all I care about), otherwise she is queen of design, and I am king of finances/paying for it. One couple we dearly love fell out with their architect who was pm'ing their build, great architect useless spineless PM, then when they tookover PMing it themselves, they fell out with th ebuilder - I think they were wrong to try to go for a fixed price build - and once it was done, she loved it and he had fallen out of love with the house and wanted to sell it and move on. They split up over it. She bought him out. Tragic.
Luckily I work away from home so am spared living on-site much of the time. We have four working adults round ours, the joys of the boomerang generation, so it is tough on the other three, and tlh comes to cph as often as possible so as to avoid the noise and the dust as much as possible.
...right. I'm about to go and use the new shower that was installed last week
*three storey terraced house, rear extension, only rear access is a narrow alleyway between us and next door, no on-street parking, only just, and I mean just, enough room out front for a skip, loads of demo work to do both internal and external, et cetera, et cetera.
**but wowsers it makes for a powerful shower now the boiler is above the bathroom!
We're going through it at the minute, big extension and changing around the downstairs. No advice but my observations are below which may or may not be of use to you.
1. Spent far too much on the architect who ended up just creating what we wanted anyway. The builder needs technical drawings but it would have cheaper to just have had those drawn up according to our design in consultation with a structural engineer.
2. Think about whether your work can be completed within Permitted Development which is quicker and cheaper than applying for Planning Permission. Which it falls under is easily found out (things like what % of the width of the house are you extend and how far etc)
3. Speak to local people in the area and get recommendations and see the finished work so see if it's up to scratch.
4. Work out what you need to buy and get quotes clear quotes from them (windows, patio doors, kitchens etc cancost a lot!)
5. Speak to all suppliers and get time frames from them so you can schedule the work. If patio doors take 3 months, make sure it;s underway at the correct time.
6. Be very clear with the builders about your expectation and keep them onside.
7. EVERYONE can be negotiated with but do it nicely without cutting corners or causing bad feelings
8. Be up front, clear, honest and friendly with your neighbours
9. There will be extra costs during the build. Keep at least 10% contingency.
10. Don't get carried away with...oh it's only another £350 to get this one instead....those £350 all add up
11. Think about the time of year to begin. Lots of open holes which is bearable in the summer
12. Make sure the house is liveable during the work - ripping out the kitchen, what about a sink/cooker/firdge for those few months
13. DUST GETS EVERYWHERE
1. Spent far too much on the architect who ended up just creating what we wanted anyway. The builder needs technical drawings but it would have cheaper to just have had those drawn up according to our design in consultation with a structural engineer.
2. Think about whether your work can be completed within Permitted Development which is quicker and cheaper than applying for Planning Permission. Which it falls under is easily found out (things like what % of the width of the house are you extend and how far etc)
3. Speak to local people in the area and get recommendations and see the finished work so see if it's up to scratch.
4. Work out what you need to buy and get quotes clear quotes from them (windows, patio doors, kitchens etc cancost a lot!)
5. Speak to all suppliers and get time frames from them so you can schedule the work. If patio doors take 3 months, make sure it;s underway at the correct time.
6. Be very clear with the builders about your expectation and keep them onside.
7. EVERYONE can be negotiated with but do it nicely without cutting corners or causing bad feelings
8. Be up front, clear, honest and friendly with your neighbours
9. There will be extra costs during the build. Keep at least 10% contingency.
10. Don't get carried away with...oh it's only another £350 to get this one instead....those £350 all add up
11. Think about the time of year to begin. Lots of open holes which is bearable in the summer
12. Make sure the house is liveable during the work - ripping out the kitchen, what about a sink/cooker/firdge for those few months
13. DUST GETS EVERYWHERE
Similar threads
