How much should petrol/diesel cost us?

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Valhalla
What about people who own armoured personnel carriers, but who only drive them 1200 miles a year? Surely that's less pollution and danger than someone piloting a Fucus for the more usual 12,000 odd miles a year? It's in how the muppets use them, not what they drive.
 

Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
Hiking the price of fuel is the only fair way. Those who have no choice (like me on the school run) will still pay. If I walked to school and then cycled to work I'd be 40 minutes late and get sacked. Those who could find greener ways to travel, could do so. People who could prove there's no avoiding car journeys (like those who need the car for work, or those who drive 50 miles to work but there's no trains) could claim back a percentage through their fuel receipts.
 

Edwardoka

Bloviating windbag
What about people who own armoured personnel carriers, but who only drive them 1200 miles a year? Surely that's less pollution and danger than someone piloting a Fucus for the more usual 12,000 odd miles a year? It's in how the muppets use them, not what they drive.
Tank traps on all roads, cyclists to be provided with free anti-tank shaped charges that they can attach to those SUVs that get within arm's reach. Weight-sensitive deployable spikes on the exit road from petrol stations and spikes in the centre of steering wheels.

Sorry, I don't make the rules. I only set and enforce them.
 
What about people who own armoured personnel carriers, but who only drive them 1200 miles a year? Surely that's less pollution and danger than someone piloting a Fucus for the more usual 12,000 odd miles a year? It's in how the muppets use them, not what they drive.
Fine if the APC is pedal powered.

Isn't there also an argument that people who drive lots would have more experience, and therefore be safer drivers?

Hiking the price of fuel is the only fair way. Those who have no choice (like me on the school run) will still pay. If I walked to school and then cycled to work I'd be 40 minutes late and get sacked. Those who could find greener ways to travel, could do so. People who could prove there's no avoiding car journeys (like those who need the car for work, or those who drive 50 miles to work but there's no trains) could claim back a percentage through their fuel receipts.
For private cars in cities that's fine, but rural businesses will get hammered if fuel prices increase.

Now, you could argue that as energy becomes more expensive than human labour, that will mean more localised businesses instead of one centralised company providing a service over a wide area, which could be a good thing. However I don't think a government will want to be seen as hurting small rural companies.

Tank traps on all roads, cyclists to be provided with free anti-tank shaped charges that they can attach to those SUVs that get within arm's reach. Weight-sensitive deployable spikes on the exit road from petrol stations and spikes in the centre of steering wheels.

Sorry, I don't make the rules. I only set and enforce them.
I detect a slight hint of militancy in your posts.
 

screenman

Legendary Member
Charge more for shorter distances.

So £10 per mile for any journey up to 10 miles. Then gradually reduce cost per mile as distances go up. Wean drivers off all the short journeys they are doing.
I think you might have to do something about public transport first, the first bus from the village of 2,000 people I live in leaves in 25 minutes time to go to nearby town.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Valhalla
The problem with that is itll encourage people to do more miles. You're doing a 7 mile trip to the shops, but you'll go round the houses to ramp it up to 10 to avoid the higher charge. That's essentially what the government did with company car tax in the 90s, and that was scrapped for much the same reason - people we deliberately racking up higher mileages to qualify for a lower tax band.
 

Edwardoka

Bloviating windbag
I think you might have to do something about public transport first, the first bus from the village of 2,000 people I live in leaves in 25 minutes time to go to nearby town.
It's circular, no-one will use public transport because it's crap and slow and inconvenient and infrequent, and no-one will invest in public transport because no-one uses it. It requires vision and joined-up thinking to resolve these issues. Something woefully lacking.

I used to live in a village with terrible public transport, in the morning you had 2 buses within 3 minutes (assuming they showed up and/or didn't leave early) and then nothing for 2 hours.

It was a 15 minute drive, 45 minutes by bus or 35 minutes by bike.
I didn't have the option of a car, and couldn't afford to live in the city.

I for one am extremely weary of our car-centric society, it makes every aspect of life worse for everyone.
 

Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
For private cars in cities that's fine, but rural businesses will get hammered if fuel prices increase.
But if it could be proven that using a car for business is the only way, they would qualify for a rebate in my imaginary scenario. The ones who should be paying top whack for fuel are those who have the option to walk/cycle/take public transport but instead choose to take a car.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Valhalla
I live in a small village, about 8 miles from civilisation, and invariably cycle into town, regardless of weather. Indeed, there is a surprising hardcore in the village who do, which is gratifying. Sure, there are disabled folk and the elderly, but the clear majority, an easy 95% or more without any shadow of a doubt, are healthy and able to do the same, but choose not to for no other reason than they are...

Bone idle lazy.

They'll come out with all sorts of reasons to justify it, but they're all excuses. Laziness and the desire to avoid expending physical effort is the problem. Until society acknowledges that nothing will change. Sea levels will rise and be lapping at their doorsteps and they'd still rather drive than walk the kids 400 metres to school.

It doesn't help that there is is culture of machismo that views cars as sexy objects of desire, or those who - unwittingly or otherwise - use cars as a means to express their perceived social station, which serves to not only legitimise but actually promote car ownership and frivolous use thereof.
 
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HMS_Dave

Senior Member
Location
Midlands
I honestly couldn't convey in words how much my life has changed since ditching my car. I've lost nearly 7 stone in weight, I have more cash and I do more things not less with my family. Sure, I've changed my diet but then all the above is a fantastic motivator to keep going. I love cars as much as the next person and I do still own one but I use it 2 times a week as opposed to multiple times a day. I work from home and travel to the post office every day on foot or by bike. I understand for many making that change is difficult if you commute every day. You're probably knackered at the end of the day and the car is highly convenient. I dont think anyone can reasonably blame you. But start easy. Just do a few rides at a weekend for leisure, build up to perhaps a commute a day, fitness does ramp up rather quickly if you're starting from a low base point, see how you go. I do think cycling networks should be considered as seriously as any other mode of transport in the country. I mean what could the 100 billion HS2 money do for cycling in this country? HS2 a small time saving or a drastic way in the way we travel in short journeys up and down the country in cities, towns and villages with a network of dedicated cycle and walking lanes with 0 emissions, less noise better air quality etc. I think it has to be encouraged through means of taxation and proper investment...
 

screenman

Legendary Member
What about people who own armoured personnel carriers, but who only drive them 1200 miles a year? Surely that's less pollution and danger than someone piloting a Fucus for the more usual 12,000 odd miles a year? It's in how the muppets use them, not what they drive.
Surely it is but, maybe that person using the APC could use Smart car.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I do think cycling networks should be considered as seriously as any other mode of transport in the country. I mean what could the 100 billion HS2 money do for cycling in this country? HS2 a small time saving or a drastic way in the way we travel in short journeys up and down the country in cities, towns and villages with a network of dedicated cycle and walking lanes with 0 emissions, less noise better air quality etc.
Or we could have both? Build HS2 anyway (including Birmingham/Coventry to Manchester), as well as HS3 Manchester-Leeds/Sheffield, which will help cycling by releasing space on trains on the older main lines so they can carry more bikes more of the time again, but reinstate the "National Cycleway" alongside HS2 which was - as usual - scrapped at the first sight of a budget overrun, plus invest the £3bn or whatever tiny % of the HS2 budget is needed to put a cycleway alongside every 50/60/70mph A/B road that doesn't yet have them. Then once that's done, invest the smaller sum needed to bring the crap existing ones up to standard.

Why does public transport and active travel get left to fight over crumbs in the budget while motoring gets repeated blank cheques?
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Valhalla
Surely it is but, maybe that person using the APC could use Smart car.
I could if the smart car hadn't gone to my disabled niece who has cerebral palsy and can hardly walk. As it is, the XC was given to me, not sought out, and instead of driving it everywhere it hardly gets used at all, barely 1000 miles annually, almost all search and rescue callouts that can be justified as saving life and limb. If it weren't for that I wouldn't have a car at all.

Imagine how wonderful it would be if every private motorist reduces their use by over 90% like I have. Instead of making excuses I lead from the front, and just get on with it.

Now, what have you done to remove all unnecessary car use like I have? Please enlighten us.
 
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