How to complete a tax return with a missing P45/P60?

[Brandane]

It's that time of year again when the dreaded tax return has to be done. Or at least think about doing it. I was getting all my required documentation together when I discovered that a company I worked for very briefly (it was a driving agency who I did a few shifts for in the space of about 1 month) have not given me either a P45 or P60.. A check on-line reveals that the company does not seem to exist any more. Any accountant types on here know how to get round this one? Obviously I don't have the full information required for a tax return. From pay slips I can work out how much I was paid and how much tax was taken but not stuff like the company's tax reference number (or whatever the technical name is)..

 

[T4tomo]

You will have all the pay and tax detail s on the next employers P60, it should split "this" and "previous" employment.

If you put in what details you have, they will work out the rest like their employer ref no (is that not on the payslip?> it should marry up to HMRC records from your NI number in any event.

 

[BoldonLad]

One of my daughters is an expert at "miss-laying" paper work. This frequently results in a problem when completing tax returns. Under these circumstances, I get the "Dad, can you help me with this...." phone call. Up until now, we have always found that provided you ensure you enter total earnings and tax paid, it will all work out in the end. I would suspect that in most instances HMRC already have the information on earning and tax, since the employer should have submitted this information for each employee.

 

[Brandane]

You will have all the pay and tax detail s on the next employers P60, it should split "this" and "previous" employment.

If you put in what details you have, they will work out the rest like their employer ref no (is that not on the payslip?> it should marry up to HMRC records from your NI number in any event.

The only problem being that as an agency worker (at that time) I had about 4 employers all at the same time, and they overlapped each other, so it wasn't as clean cut as "this" and "previous" employment. As you say, I will submit what details I have and let them work it out. Hopefully next year it will be nice and simple - one pension, plus one employer!

 

[smutchin]

What I have done in this situation is phone HMRC and ask them. As @BoldonLad says, they’ll be able to give you the info (which makes me wonder why they need me to fill in the damn form...)

 

[Bazzer]

It's that time of year again when the dreaded tax return has to be done. Or at least think about doing it. I was getting all my required documentation together when I discovered that a company I worked for very briefly (it was a driving agency who I did a few shifts for in the space of about 1 month) have not given me either a P45 or P60.. A check on-line reveals that the company does not seem to exist any more. Any accountant types on here know how to get round this one? Obviously I don't have the full information required for a tax return. From pay slips I can work out how much I was paid and how much tax was taken but not stuff like the company's tax reference number (or whatever the technical name is)..

Shouldn't be a problem.
If you didn't get a P45, you would not have been able to hand this to your new employer, so an entry as previous pay would not appear on the P60 given to you by your employer at the year end. You could double check, by looking at any P45s you did get and making sure the pay and tax on them appears as previous pay and tax on your year end P60.
Similarly, if this was a concurrent employment, your pay from this source would not appear on your year end employer P60.
There is a facility for entering multiple employments on the return. Use the pay and tax details from your last pay slip from the "missing" employer for one of the employment pages. Make sure that the last payslip reflects your accumulated pay for your time there. If it doesn't, you will need to get the calculator out .
As to the reference number, you might find this on the payslips. If not, see if the return will submit without it. If it doesn't, put the entry as something like 999/99999.
There is what is called a white space on the return, which is for supplementary information. Make a note in that about what you have done and why.

 

[smutchin]

One of my daughters is an expert at "miss-laying" paper work. This frequently results in a problem when completing tax returns.

I used to be the same. These days I just scan and save PDFs of any P45/P60/receipts in a folder on my computer called eg ‘Tax 2016/7’ - you just need the self discipline to do the scanning as soon as you receive the letter and the system works really well. No need to keep actual bits of paper which just take up space/get disorganised/get lost.

I’m freelance so do lots of casual work for lots of different companies, some of which insist on paying you PAYE through payroll, so my tax return usually involves several pages of ‘employers’.

I’ve had to call HMRC numerous times over the years to ask for lost info (or info that was never supplied in the first place as per the OP) - just so I can fill it in on their form and send it back to tell them what they already know...

Used to be quite difficult to get through to them but I find them much easier to deal with these days, so calling them is usually the easiest option. And online self-assessment also makes life a hell of a lot easier.

 

[BoldonLad]

I used to be the same. These days I just scan and save PDFs of any P45/P60/receipts in a folder on my computer called eg ‘Tax 2016/7’ - you just need the self discipline to do the scanning as soon as you receive the letter and the system works really well. No need to keep actual bits of paper which just take up space/get disorganised/get lost.

I’m freelance so do lots of casual work for lots of different companies, some of which insist on paying you PAYE through payroll, so my tax return usually involves several pages of ‘employers’.

I’ve had to call HMRC numerous times over the years to ask for lost info (or info that was never supplied in the first place as per the OP) - just so I can fill it in on their form and send it back to tell them what they already know...

Used to be quite difficult to get through to them but I find them much easier to deal with these days, so calling them is usually the easiest option. And online self-assessment also makes life a hell of a lot easier.

Yes, I am a "paper free" scanner sort of person, but, my daughter and self-discipline are two words that do not usually appear on the same page, never-mind the same sentence!

Thankfully, she now has a single PAYE job for NHS, so, Agency and multiple payslips etc are long gone.

 

[accountantpete]

Check Companies House for the status of the company (free) https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company.

I have one client with similar problems from year to year - many due to umbrella companies starting and then failing - and just include gross earnings and tax paid on the return as normal plus a written note explaining the problem and the company name/number and address if possible (with payslip copies).

If you were paid by transfer or cheque then reconcile the payslips to the amounts received - that makes sure that everything has been included in case a payslip has been mislaid etc.

 

[annedonnelly]

What I have done in this situation is phone HMRC and ask them. As @BoldonLad says, they’ll be able to give you the info (which makes me wonder why they need me to fill in the damn form...)

When you fill in the form electronically they seem to check against their records as you enter the details. I don't know what happens if what you put in disagrees with what they hold.

 

[alicat]

@Brandane

Your post just prompted me to do my tax return. I found that this year for the first time that they had pre-filled in the income and taxable benefits.

If you have all the income except one employment it should be possible to check if the amount they have inserted is roughly right.

In your shoes I would just start the return and see how you get on. You can always save it and call them if needed.

Oh and I owe them £345.40.

 

[subaqua]

@Brandane

Your post just prompted me to do my tax return. I found that this year for the first time that they had pre-filled in the income and taxable benefits.

If you have all the income except one employment it should be possible to check if the amount they have inserted is roughly right.

In your shoes I would just start the return and see how you get on. You can always save it and call them if needed.

Oh and I owe them £345.40.

Same happened for me too . And a very similar amount ....

 

[Accy cyclist]

shoot,i've just received a letter from HR&C saying i've been given a £100 fine for not sending in my tax return on time. "Your tax return for the year ended 5 April 2017 was not sent in on time.Because of this a penalty of £100 is payable".
Any suggestions what to do,apart from just pay it?

 

[groundy74]

shoot,i've just received a letter from HR&C saying i've been given a £100 fine for not sending in my tax return on time. "Your tax return for the year ended 5 April 2017 was not sen in on time.Because of this a penalty of £100 is payable".
Any suggestions what to do,apart from just pay it?

You will need to pay it unless you have a very good reason to appeal. However, paying the penalty does not mean you don't need to file the return. You should file the return immediately as the penalties will increase.

 

[accountantpete]

shoot,i've just received a letter from HR&C saying i've been given a £100 fine for not sending in my tax return on time. "Your tax return for the year ended 5 April 2017 was not sen in on time.Because of this a penalty of £100 is payable".
Any suggestions what to do,apart from just pay it?

Depends on the reason why you failed to submit it. See SA370 pdf. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/680386/SA370__Appeal.pdf