How well known is cyclechat outside of the cyclechat community?

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Location
London
he by, some on here are perennially complaining about the forum, yet they post almost daily :whistle:

That's not hard to understand or an unreasonable position pat. I assume that they generally like the place/find it useful but have concerns about some aspects of it, now or in the recent past, which, quite rightly in my view, they think it fair to express. To nudge things in the right direction.

Otherwise you are advocating that folk who criticise aspects of their society/country, should just leave.
 

Salty seadog

Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
I'm with Groucho on clubs.
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
Coming back to the OP, and away from re-airing old grievances about forum management ...

Are BC missing a trick in thinking cycling and its promotion revolves around clubs? I'd say not. There's a difference between formal and informal organisation, and plenty of room for both. If BC got involved in loose internet organised cycling it would by definition become more formal because they will bring along standards, training, insurance, etc. And bingo! it would cease to be under the radar.
And I’d agree. They serve different sets of people with different expectations. I’m not surprised at @User13710 s experiences on the Breeze rides. Anyone who’s a FNRttC or other CC ride regular would find the whole BC ride management ‘system’ fussy and restrictive. But for anyone who’s returning to cycling or otherwise doesn’t have the confidence to jump on a bike and just ride, they’re a useful option.

My own rough analogy is like going on holiday. Some people are happy to jump on a plane (generally Lone Ranger riders like myself), some people like to go on holiday with an extended gang of friends (FNRttC, CC rides) while others like a package and to follow a tour guide with a flag (Let’s Ride etc). That’s not a value judgement - occasionally I listen in on the tour guides in Winchester and learn something new- but they all service different markets.

In defence of the Breeze and Lets Ride rides, I think BC are recognising that the vibe needs to relax. As I said before, this year they’re opening up the routes and they’ve now dropped the warm-up/competence session at the start of the ride.

To answer some of @User13710 ‘s other issues, the junction management stuff, with a rear leader giving it beans to get to the front, is fine in theory but you often have to be more pragmatic in practice. The main reason I prefer two ride leaders for a group is that local conditions are lumpy and any size group usually breaks up when heading uphill. Having a rider stick with the back-markers makes sure they’re ok, keeps them feeling part of the ride and also stops them worrying that they’re “holding people up”.
 

Pat "5mph"

A kilogrammicaly challenged woman
Moderator
Location
Glasgow
That's not hard to understand or an unreasonable position pat. I assume that they generally like the place/find it useful but have concerns about some aspects of it, now or in the recent past, which, quite rightly in my view, they think it fair to express. To nudge things in the right direction.

Otherwise you are advocating that folk who criticise aspects of their society/country, should just leave.
This is a valid point you're making @Blue Hills.
You've got me down to a tee, indeed I left a country because I didn't like most aspects of their society :laugh:
Of course I'm not advocating members to leave CC country.
Elaborating a bit, I was meaning that a little grumbling from time to time is fine, a little grumbling followed by some mature, constructive, realistic suggestions of improvement is great.
While a continuous moaning over the same issues without bringing any input to the solution of the perceived problem is, to me, a waste of time.

*Ahem*
Leading by example are we?
@User has been a wee bit naughty, twisting my words by mixing up quotes of different posts of mine.
Pat "5mph" said:
he by, some on here are perennially complaining about the forum, yet they post almost daily :whistle:
You knew I was referring to the ancient feuds "she's a lefty, he's a righty, they post in the cafe, usual suspects, those others gang up, etc,"
In no way I was disparaging any current or previous forum members, you quoting the rules at me is a bit of a cheek.
This thread was steering towards serious criticism of members not here anymore to answer for themselves, one would think you of all members would appreciate the moderation before it got out of hand.

We are now back on topic, thank you all.
This thread is really interesting in highlighting how we perceive different cycling organizations according to our style of riding.
When we had our Breeze meeting and training the Glasgow Belles were reluctant to adopts the Breeze system.
All of us were already riding for transport and leisure, had done a few training courses, had initial support from Cycling UK (then CTC), some of us were leading rides with 20 participants for 50 miles along our canals.
We did not see the need of a "new protector" so to speak, their rules and regulations were a killjoy to us.
While some smaller groups from Edinburgh and from villages in the north of Scotland welcomed the extra support, the FB page to ask questions.
I agree with @Bollo's and @User13710's comments.
My most useful ride leader training came not from actual training, but from going on Freewheel North's led rides (a local cycling charity social enterprise).
Their leaders come from a variety of backgrounds, vary local routes according to the ability of the group, are very clued up on hazards without making you feel you're riding in the army's team lol.
 
Location
London
This is a valid point you're making @Blue Hills.
You've got me down to a tee, indeed I left a country because I didn't like most aspects of their society :laugh:
Of course I'm not advocating members to leave CC country.
Elaborating a bit, I was meaning that a little grumbling from time to time is fine, a little grumbling followed by some mature, constructive, realistic suggestions of improvement is great.
While a continuous moaning over the same issues without bringing any input to the solution of the perceived problem is, to me, a waste of time.
Thanks for the reply Pat - to maybe clarify. I wasn't actually moaning pat, more celebrating that Cyclechat does seem to have improved a fair lot of late. And folks may now and again echo this. Hoping that it stays that way.

The other topic you mention - I know a fair bit about that place - would be a very interesting thread in itself though I fear wouldn't mean much to most folk and may shatter their illusions/holiday plans. Have come across a fair few folk like you in Britain - the three that spring to mind are curiously all women - one met bumbling around London, another on a London walk, another on a London Cycling Campaign group ride. None had plans to return - far from it. Hell it might seem to a casual observer that the babies/toddlers are leaving - not many of them around.

On the main topic, it is exceptionally rare that I meet anyone who confesses to being a member of ANY cycling forum, unless I already know their guilty secret.
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
We are now back on topic, thank you all.
This thread is really interesting in highlighting how we perceive different cycling organizations according to our style of riding.
When we had our Breeze meeting and training the Glasgow Belles were reluctant to adopts the Breeze system.
All of us were already riding for transport and leisure, had done a few training courses, had initial support from Cycling UK (then CTC), some of us were leading rides with 20 participants for 50 miles along our canals.
We did not see the need of a "new protector" so to speak, their rules and regulations were a killjoy to us.
While some smaller groups from Edinburgh and from villages in the north of Scotland welcomed the extra support, the FB page to ask questions.
I agree with @Bollo's and @User13710's comments.
My most useful ride leader training came not from actual training, but from going on Freewheel North's led rides (a local cycling charity social enterprise).
Their leaders come from a variety of backgrounds, vary local routes according to the ability of the group, are very clued up on hazards without making you feel you're riding in the army's team lol.
I sounds like you almost certainly made the right decision to stay out of the BC universe. Ultimately you've got to ask what was in it for them. Somewhere up the line BC have to justify the expenditure for these schemes and ready-made groups like yours would be a quick win in terms of numbers and participation. For you, it's a judgement call about the value of the training, support and publicity. Of these, personally I think they do the first well, but support and publicity are mixed at best.

The BC training I received was very good but the most useful bits weren't the mechanics of the BC system. There was a lot of emphasis on the other softer skills that are needed to manage a group of maybe nervous, mixed ability, mixed age, possibly shy riders. This was about the time BC was starting to suffer from the bad publicity around sexism in their elite programme, which may have focused the minds of the trainers. The most useful discussion we had was around the sometimes undesirable dynamics that can develop between participants (everything from direct harassment to creepy mansplainers!) and ways to deal with them. There was also a LOT of safeguarding.

@User13710 - BCs social ride programmes certainly shouldn't be club-run-lite and the your organisers sound like they've overstepped their remit. Although there's an annoying amount of form-filling, the actual monitoring of rides and ongoing training seems quite hands-off, so I can see how a certain culture could develop within a group unchecked. Also, although I've never had reason to worry about the competence and good-faith of other volunteers I've ridden with (ok, once I've questioned competence) leading style can vary considerably. I'm quite interactive, but other leaders do a good impression of a Keirin derny rider.
 

Pat "5mph"

A kilogrammicaly challenged woman
Moderator
Location
Glasgow
Why are we so ashamed of this? I too sometimes mumble in embarrassment with none cycling aquaintences about details of discussions on the forum!
How so?
When someone wonders where I got my snippets of bike mechanical knowledge, I proudly answer: "I learned it on Cycle Chat!" :becool:
 
Location
London
Why are we so ashamed of this? I too sometimes mumble in embarrassment with none cycling aquaintences about details of discussions on the forum!
It was a bit of a light joke to be honest.
Edit: (after pat like, retract it if you want) though so rare is it for folk to own up to membership of this or any of the other places that I have sometimes wondered if folk are keeping schtum/keeping their powder dry. Then, as we cycle onwards for a bit, they pause for an apparent puncture, to then ram their pump through my heart in settlement of some obscure imagined long ago online feud.
 
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Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
BCs social ride programmes certainly shouldn't be club-run-lite and the your organisers sound like they've overstepped their remit. Although there's an annoying amount of form-filling, the actual monitoring of rides and ongoing training seems quite hands-off, so I can see how a certain culture could develop within a group unchecked. Also, although I've never had reason to worry about the competence and good-faith of other volunteers I've ridden with (ok, once I've questioned competence) leading style can vary considerably. I'm quite interactive, but other leaders do a good impression of a Keirin derny rider.
The BC social rides I go on are very relaxed affairs - not remotely close to "club-run-lite". They tend to be organized by folk who lead guided rides too, and I know they're competent, but the social rides are really just about a bunch of people having a nice ride - with the choice of lunch stop being by far the most important issue of the day. I have no interest in "club" style riding, with all the weird hand-semaphore going on, but the BC socials I go on are nothing like that.

But I suspect there's big variation between groups, and it depends who organizes them and who takes part in them. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's regional variation too.
 
I went to see @potsy today just to make sure he was still real. He certainly feels real :hugs:

Did you ride tandem?

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