I am confused about range on electric bikes and is it honest?

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RyanUK

New Member
Location
London
Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum, and a bit new to cycling in general. I was looking at electric bikes, and I found a huge disparity in the advertised range on bikes and I do not know what to make of it. I am based in the UK, and the current UK law is that electric bikes can be up to 250 Wh and go up to 15.5 mph. This is my understanding, is that if they had too much power, they would go into the sphere of motorcycle type of transport.

Anyway, I was looking at Swytch Bike conversion kit which advertises an expected range of 30 miles on its 250 Wh battery: https://prnt.sc/ud8w3r

Then I looked at some of the purpose-built electric bikes from the cheap ones to the well known brands, and they were all quoting really high ranges compared to the Swytch Bikes. For example, the VanMoof S3 electric bike advertises 37-93 miles range (60-150km) with 504 Wh battery capacity. I can see that the Swytch has 250 Wh battery capacity so almost half of the VanMoof, and that is probably the main reason for the extra range. However, what I don't understand is that they are advertising the 504 Wh battery capacity to UK customers with UK prices, but when they sell it, will they be giving the UK customers the 504 Wh battery capacity or limit the battery capacity to 250 Wh?

Does anyone know if the ranges estimated by these companies is accurate or not? And is the range based on no pedalling at all or medium pedalling?

If anyone in the UK has bought a pre-built electric bike, can you let me know if it was restricted to 250 Wh or did you get a much higher capacity (technically illegal) but I have heard that many or some people have them!

Thank you.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
My ebike is a legal 250W job. The battery is relatively low capacity and i am a heavy rider, but typically achieve 35 miles of assisted range. Of course, I can double that by switching it off when not necessary, using lower assist settings, or travelling beyond 15.5mpg and making my legs to all the work.

Certain things will affect range. Motor power, gearing, battery capacity, temperature, rider weight, riding style, and the manner in which the system is used. Bosch have a tange calculator on their website, but at best its guesswork. The variables are so numerous the only way you will ever really know for any given bike is to ride it a few hundred miles and see for yourself.

Illegal bikes are frowmed upon, and not popular in these parts. Right or wrong, their usage reflects badly on all cyclists. In addition, is it worth the grief of getting knocked off for lthe various document offences? Being had for no insurance is a particular kicker as it is also considered a dishonesty offence - itll show up on DBS checks so you san kiss goodbye to any job that requires one, and you'll struggle to get insurance of any type for years to come, and when you do you will be anally invaded for the quote.

If you want a speed pedelec - as they are known - do it properly. You can buy them already registered, or register one yourself, and ensure youve got the necessaty licence and insurance. Only a twit with utter contempt for those that share the road would consider driving any vehicle unlaefully.

PS - don't confuse battery capacity with motor output. You can have a gazillion Wh battery, but the electeonics regulate the output and as a result the motor may still provide a completely legal 250W power.
 
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RyanUK

RyanUK

New Member
Location
London
Hi Drago, thank you. What you say makes sense and I kind of understood most of that from reading various articles on e-bikes. However, as I explained I could not understand the huge disparity in the range quoted by ebike companies on their website. My best guess is that Swytch being a British company (although selling globally) is taking the cautious or realistic approach to their range estimates and that most companies are exaggerating things, often doubling the average, which hardly anyone is going to achieve. That is my best guess. I have sent an email to VanMoof asking them for an explanation. I haven't heard back yet. I basically asked them as a UK resident could I buy the 504 Wh ebike, and if not and it had to be limited to 250 Wh, then what would the estimated range of my 250 Wh Vanmoof ebike be? I hope they reply, it would be interesting to hear what they say.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
I have a Cube MTB ebike, with a 250W motor & a 500aH battery, it has 4 assist settings, 5 if you include off, it also has a display showing 5 bar LED's for battery remaining, I can go out on a relatively 30 mile flat route with it on Economy assist & still come back with 4 bars, similarly I can go out on a hilly 20 mile route where I have used more assist & come back with 3 bars. It's one of those how long is a piece of string questions sorry, I believe I could easily get over 60 maybe even 80 miles of assist out of mine if used sparingly as I do.
 

welsh dragon

Thanks but no thanks. I think I'll pass.
The ranges quoted are very much like the ranges quoted for electric cars.

So much depends on the weight of the bike, the weight of the rider, the type of roads that you ride on IE flat or hilly. The speed that you go, the Amount of assistance that you use etc.

They are estimates only. There are so many variables, the bike manufacturers cannot give guarantees

Weather conditions can also be a factor. Very cold weather might drain the battery faster than warm weather
 
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RyanUK

RyanUK

New Member
Location
London
I have a Cube MTB ebike, with a 250W motor & a 500aH battery, it has 4 assist settings, 5 if you include off, it also has a display showing 5 bar LED's for battery remaining, I can go out on a relatively 30 mile flat route with it on Economy assist & still come back with 4 bars, similarly I can go out on a hilly 20 mile route where I have used more assist & come back with 3 bars. It's one of those how long is a piece of string questions sorry, I believe I could easily get over 60 maybe even 80 miles of assist out of mine if used sparingly as I do.
How much did your Cube bike cost you? I went on their website, and I noticed that some of them weighed about 25 KG (135 KG structural weight). That seemed like a lot to me. They also seemed very expensive. I was seeing bikes in the price range of £4,000 to £8,000!

But it did look like quality. But I know very little at this stage. I am considering getting the Swytch Bike kit, as it seems more affordable to me. Thanks.
 
Location
Essex
The UK limit is on the power of the motor, measured in watts (250), not the capacity of the battery expressed in Watt-Hours. Don't confuse watts with watt-hours.

Broadly speaking you'd expect a 500Wh battery to keep going twice as long as a 250Wh battery, whatever the other factors (rider weight + power output, terrain, average speed, rolling resistance etc.) but no-one rides their bike like a robot in a lab.
 

mustang1

Guru
Location
London, UK
My ebike is a legal 250W job. The battery is relatively low capacity and i am a heavy rider, but typically achieve 35 miles of assisted range. Of course, I can double that by switching it off when not necessary, using lower assist settings, or travelling beyond 15.5mpg and making my legs to all the work.

Certain things will affect range. Motor power, gearing, battery capacity, temperature, rider weight, riding style, and the manner in which the system is used. Bosch have a tange calculator on their website, but at best its guesswork. The variables are so numerous the only way you will ever really know for any given bike is to ride it a few hundred miles and see for yourself.

Illegal bikes are frowmed upon, and not popular in these parts. Right or wrong, their usage reflects badly on all cyclists. In addition, is it worth the grief of getting knocked off for lthe various document offences? Being had for no insurance is a particular kicker as it is also considered a dishonesty offence - itll show up on DBS checks so you san kiss goodbye to any job that requires one, and you'll struggle to get insurance of any type for years to come, and when you do you will be anally invaded for the quote.

If you want a speed pedelec - as they are known - do it properly. You can buy them already registered, or register one yourself, and ensure youve got the necessaty licence and insurance. Only a twit with utter contempt for those that share the road would consider driving any vehicle unlaefully.

PS - don't confuse battery capacity with motor output. You can have a gazillion Wh battery, but the electeonics regulate the output and as a result the motor may still provide a completely legal 250W power.

Which mode do you get 35 miles on (eco, medium, turbo etc) ?
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
How much did your Cube bike cost you?
It cost just over £1600 they matched the Cycle to Work scheme price & I paid on card, from https://www.leisurewheels.co.uk/ it's https://www.cube.eu/en/2020/e-bikes...cube-acid-hybrid-one-500-29-bluenorange-2020/ weighs about 22Kg
 

TheDoctor

Europe Endless
Moderator
Location
The TerrorVortex
...I basically asked them as a UK resident could I buy the 504 Wh ebike, and if not and it had to be limited to 250 Wh, then what would the estimated range of my 250 Wh Vanmoof ebike be? I hope they reply, it would be interesting to hear what they say.
You're confusing two different things, I think.
The motor is limited to 250W power output. The battery capacity, in Wh, can be as big as you're prepared to pay for and carry about.
Range on ebikes is very variable. My cheap Ebay bike will do about 30k with some pedalling, but the time the chain broke and I was solely relying on the motor, I got about 15k out of the battery. As my commute was about 14k at the time, I was very nervous by the time I got to the end of my road!
 
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RyanUK

RyanUK

New Member
Location
London
You're confusing two different things, I think.
The motor is limited to 250W power output. The battery capacity, in Wh, can be as big as you're prepared to pay for and carry about.
Range on ebikes is very variable. My cheap Ebay bike will do about 30k with some pedalling, but the time the chain broke and I was solely relying on the motor, I got about 15k out of the battery. As my commute was about 14k at the time, I was very nervous by the time I got to the end of my road!
Yes, you are right. I was confusing Wh with W. Most of them are not very clear. I was trying to work out if the Swytch bike I want is good value for money compared to the off-the-shelf ebikes out there. I also didn't like the look or design of some of the ebikes out there and the ones I did like tended to be very expensive, or they didn't have the size I wanted. So, there was always one trade off or the other. Hence why I felt the swytch bike seemed liked a good deal. Thanks.
 
Assuming that you go for a legal ebike for the UK - i.e. ROAD legal - if you don;t want to ride it on publics roads, cycle paths etc etc then anything is legal - then the motor almost certainly will be 250W
So the power is fixed - but the range, under ideal conditions - varies from make to make.
In my experience this is due to
a) exaggeration from some manufacturers
b) efficency of the motor and drive train

I used to have a 180W (old regs) ebike with a battey of 14Ah after recelling which would do about 50 miles per charge. My current ebike is a Raleigh Motus with an 8Ah battery but it has the same sort of range - which I (based on naff all proper evidence) assume is due to a more efficent motor.

It looks as if the big companies are quite honest about range - assuming that you don't go up any hills and there is little or no wind and the road is reasonably smooth - and the weather is warm (which makes a big difference!!)
So my Motus can do 50 miles - which is actually a bit higher than I have seen quoted, in spite of me normally using Tour mode rather than Eco.
Other manufacturers seem to make claims that are more 'optimistic'!
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
The Wattage hours W/h of the battery is a number to indicate how many Watts it can supply in one hour

eg 750W/h can supply 750W for 1 hour or 250Watts for 3 hours.

The example above easily works with a 250 Watt motor. If you were to use the full 250W you would ride for 3 hours, at 15 mph. A range of 45 miles.


In reality, you wont use 250W all the time so range will be increased if you put some effort in.

250W motors are rated for continuous output. In reality they can put out much more in short bursts, 500-750W being possible.

I disagree with Drago, modified ebikes are common and are as safe as others. Its the rider that makes a device reckless. If you want a bit more power to get you up steep climbs where you live, so be it, or clamp max power to 150W to increase range that's ok too.
 
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