"I can't help it if a cyclist falls over"

[mr_cellophane]

CrashMap has the location of the fatality.http://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search (type Stonor and it is the only black flag on the map). StreetView is enabled.

Notice how narrow the lanes are in the vicinity of the crash site on the bend. It is also clear that sightlines would have been compromised (more so than Street View suggests as Dr Measures' car was either partially or wholly in the opposing lane - unlike the Street View car).

Wow - I was expecting to see a proper country road with no verge, grass banks and overhanging trees, not such a wide open road with a pavement. Makes her bad driving look even worse.

 

[Spinney]

I don't think we're looking at the same thing.

This is what I see - no pavement... (not sure if I'm facing the right way along the road, but it is similar both ways).

 

[Origamist]

@Spinney As I understand it, that is the crash site. The perspective you have captured is from the cyclists' viewpoint. If you move forward 70 metres or so and spin 180 degrees you then get the view from the driver's perspective (it is then a right hand bend as mentioned in the court reporting).

I would never overtake on a bend like that.

 

[Crankarm]

It sounds as if the prosecuting counsel was not doing his/her job very well...

And this wouldn't be the first time .................................

This whole case has a very bad SMELL about it. Justice has not been served. There has been a grave MISCARRIAGE of justice. The woman Measures should have been found guilty and got 5 years in prison without any discount.

Just make sure when posting to use the words Helen Measures and cyclist killer so it will always come top in search engines when cyclist deaths or helen measures are searched for. If the courts refuse to convict her then at least what she did can remain on the internet.

 

[glenn forger]

• Dr Helen Measure’s defence (an unpleasant individual named Janick Fielding, about which more later) stated that Denisa was an inexperienced cyclist and road user - she’d only been riding a few days. These are the facts that were presented to the jury and reported by the media. They’re also false. She’d been cycling regularly since a young age, held a UK driving license, and drove every day to work.
• There were over ten character references for Helen read out as part of the defence, including her cancer work and weekly church visits.
• The judge, when summing up, emphasised Helen’s good character to the jury again.

http://www.darkerside.org/2013/10/helen-measures-and-the-death-of-denisa/

The "facts" presented to the court were completely false.

 

[ComedyPilot]

Wow, the more I read about this the more I really despair about the decision making and sanity of people...
While I may not have all the facts, at this point in time I do not understand how this came to be not gulity...

It seems to me like the jury were of a collective mindset 'That could have been me' - yet they meant the car driver not the cyclist, and basically excused the driver for snuffing out an innocent life.

The FACTS of this case are a driver overtook into oncoming (vulnerable) traffic and killed one of them as a result.

 

[ComedyPilot]

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=St...=G6w8Toa-WAM8t-uIQjTIdw&cbp=12,342.14,,0,3.23

So, overtake on a blind R/H bend into oncoming cyclists, kill one of them and the result - not guilty?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Five people died on our roads yesterday
Five people will die on our roads today
Five more people will die on our roads tomorrow
and so it goes on, and on, and on.

Our society has decided it can tolerate this; if one or two of the five on a particular day is a cyclist well, society has decided it can tolerate that too. Juries reflect that tolerance.

 

[Crankarm]

http://www.darkerside.org/2013/10/helen-measures-and-the-death-of-denisa/

The "facts" presented to the court were completely false.

"Good character" is not the lay meaning ie did lots of charity work etc although the defendant might well have done. Legally it means of no previous criminal convictions, no criminal record. A previous conviction would mean legally she was not of good character even if she was almost a saint in terms of charity work and her counsel would not rely on it. Had she not been of good character then it would have been very difficult of her or her lawyer to impune her deceased victim casting invalid aspirations about her inexperience and lack of cycling ability as hopefully the prosecution would jump at the chance of attacking the bad character of the defendant.

 

[Boris Bajic]

It is a tragic case and there may be some case for questioning the verdict, although not through the courts. Nonetheless, it was the verdict reached and the judge did not seem to find it unusual or worthy of comment that this was so. Judges who find that the verdict seems out of kilter with the evidence presented usually remark on this and this is usually reported in the media. There was no comment in this case.

There is a proportion of cases in which the CPS considers prosecution a valid step and conviction likely, but the jury disagrees. That is what happened in this case.

I've read here and elsewhere speculation that juries alter their verdict on the basis of "there but for the grace of God go I..." Along with many other CC members, I've done jury service. I sat on three juries between many long waits, with some common members in all three and some I saw only once. The notion that a jury will openly or tacitly adopt the mindset that leaway should be given 'as this could easily have been them' is one I do not recognise from personal experience.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone in CC sat on a jury where they suspect this mindset had an effect on the outcome or the verdict?

 

[glenn forger]

It is a tragic case and there may be some case for questioning the verdict, although blah blah blah

You said exactly the same thing here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-cant-help-it-if-a-cyclist-falls-over.140824/post-2736156

And again here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-cant-help-it-if-a-cyclist-falls-over.140824/post-2699784

Here too:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-cant-help-it-if-a-cyclist-falls-over.140824/post-2699740

Again here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-cant-help-it-if-a-cyclist-falls-over.140824/post-2699594

Once more here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-cant-help-it-if-a-cyclist-falls-over.140824/post-2698405

Your other contributions to the thread were to repeat the lie that Denisa was "inexperienced" and to say that "it is not the job of the parents" to correct the lies printed about their daughter. You said that here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-cant-help-it-if-a-cyclist-falls-over.140824/post-2736156

The parents were not called as witnesses, killer driver Dr Helen Measures had eleven character witnesses to say she's a wonderful person, and the parents had to sit and listen to their daughter being lied about with no right of reply, then you criticise them for speaking out.

You're spamming the thread. You're posting the exact same drivel over and over and over and over again. Your comments are despicable, and you're deliberately spamming the thread with repetitive posts. Go away.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

It is a tragic case and there may be some case for questioning the verdict, although not through the courts. Nonetheless, it was the verdict reached and the judge did not seem to find it unusual or worthy of comment that this was so. Judges who find that the verdict seems out of kilter with the evidence presented usually remark on this and this is usually reported in the media. There was no comment in this case.

There is a proportion of cases in which the CPS considers prosecution a valid step and conviction likely, but the jury disagrees. That is what happened in this case.

I've read here and elsewhere speculation that juries alter their verdict on the basis of "there but for the grace of God go I..." Along with many other CC members, I've done jury service. I sat on three juries between many long waits, with some common members in all three and some I saw only once. The notion that a jury will openly or tacitly adopt the mindset that leaway should be given 'as this could easily have been them' is one I do not recognise from personal experience.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone in CC sat on a jury where they suspect this mindset had an effect on the outcome or the verdict?

I was on 2 juries with the same person, in both instances his default position was, I know what the evidence shows but I don't want a conviction on my conscience so will say not guilty.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I was on 2 juries with the same person, in both instances his default position was, I know what the evidence shows but I don't want a conviction on my conscience so will say not guilty.

I was on a case once where a cabbie held out for ages against everyone else. Just because the accused came from the same part of East London as him.

 

[Spinney]

I was on 2 juries with the same person, in both instances his default position was, I know what the evidence shows but I don't want a conviction on my conscience so will say not guilty.

Is this something that should have been reported to the judge? May have causes a mistrial - but anyone with that attitude should NOT be on a jury.

 

[Crankarm]

I was on 2 juries with the same person, in both instances his default position was, I know what the evidence shows but I don't want a conviction on my conscience so will say not guilty.

O M G !