I got a fixed penalty today

[HLaB]

I would probably argue. Blue doesn't mean mandatory, only those in a red circle do! Blue is an information sign.

If you couldn't turn right, IMO, it should be a no right turn, with "expect buses" written underneath.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...=PnpMDNRLKAtr8HyHFOgkvA&cbp=12,338.73,,3,2.78

(I know that is a traffic light, but you get the idea)

I'd say that the wrong sign is in use and fight the ticket. The sign shown isn't mentioned in the highway code (or I can't see it)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Signsandmarkings/index.htm

Signs in a Red Circle are Prohibtory signs the stop you from doing certain things (exceeding the speed limit, aye right ). The Mandatory signs are designed to give you a positive message of what you must do, ie one way, or as pictured my overth, go left a rbt.

 

[kendalcottages]

Here it is on StreetView by the way:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...e96_0v_8gej73XKJjjIY9w&cbp=12,172.33,,0,12.56

...but please note that they are continually messing around with this junction - adding/removing crossings, changing road markings, moving signs, etc.

If I'm not mistaken, the left arrow used to be further back, looking at this (not that that's especially relevant, I suppose).

 

[thomas]

The signage IMHO is perfectly clear if you know the highway code (the big left turn arrow marked on the road gives it away). Ignorance of the law is no excuse but if visibility to the sign (if thats the only one) is an issue that may be a defence but I'm not sure if that would be accepted; perhaps a legal person could advise.

The big left turn could be there to show that the roads goes to the left, rather than carrying on straight ahead. That wouldn't be unusual.

Signs in a Red Circle are Prohibtory signs the stop you from doing certain things (exceeding the speed limit, aye right ). The Mandatory signs are designed to give you a positive message of what you must do, ie one way, or as pictured go left a rbt.

Prohibitory, as in you can't do this...if you can't turn right there, use that type of sign!

A positive message? So, you should really carry on to the left...but I'm not going to actually prohibit you from turning right.

It is the wrong sign for the intended message (or at least the message as interpreted by the Police officer).

I am more than happy to concede I am wrong, but I can't find anything to back up a different opinion in the highway code.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/index.htm

okay, edit:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070642.pdf

Possibly wrong. I still think it's a stupid choice of signs.

"Signs with blue circles but no red border mostly give positive instruction."

Then for that sign it says "Turn left ahead". It does not say that you cannot turn right however....seems to be a bit vague: as if it is encouraging people to not turn right, but does not explicitly stop them.

I would still be tempted to fight the ticket (possibly contact the local rag to get a bit of support)...but I guess it depends on what the alternative punishment is if you are actually wrong.

 

[ChrisKH]

Sorry, I think the signage is clear; unless you're a bus you must turn left.

Mind you, I would have been distracted by the Evans Cycles and missed the turning entirely....

 

[Jmetz]

The sign is before the junction, huge and also reinforced by the road marking? If we had signs giving indication as to every single manoeuvre you were or weren't allowed to do on the road we'd have nothing but signs, that's the whole point of the highway code and learning to drive. Should pay up.

 

[kendalcottages]

Sorry, I think the signage is clear; unless you're a bus you must turn left.

I think 'by the letter of the law' it probably is, also. Although I do think it could be clearer - for instance, having that sign a bit before the junction, rather than at it.

Mind you, I would have been distracted by the Evans Cycles and missed the turning entirely....

 

[darkstar]

It's is fairly clear, short of flashing red light surrounding the sign!

 

[thomas]

The sign is before the junction, huge and also reinforced by the road marking? If we had signs giving indication as to every single manoeuvre you were or weren't allowed to do on the road we'd have nothing but signs, that's the whole point of the highway code and learning to drive. Should pay up.

All that needs to happen is it to be replaced with a no right turn sign, except for buses (and cycles!!). No ambiguity there....and no more signs either.

Heck, you could even remove the left arrow on the ground then

 

[iendicott]

The big left turn could be there to show that the roads goes to the left, rather than carrying on straight ahead. That wouldn't be unusual.

No the sign on the road informs you which way you must go, you will also see these on an approach to a multiple lane roadabout to make sure you are in the correct lane to go your way.

To go straight ahead the ahead would have 2 heads, one to the left and one ahead.

Ivan

 

[HLaB]

The big left turn could be there to show that the roads goes to the left, rather than carrying on straight ahead. That wouldn't be unusual.

Not uncommon but it still means you have to turn left.



Prohibitory, as in you can't do this...if you can't turn right there, use that type of sign!

A positive message? So, you should really carry on to the left...but I'm not going to actually prohibit you from turning right.

It is the wrong sign for the intended message (or at least the message as interpreted by the Police officer).

I am more than happy to concede I am wrong, but I can't find anything to back up a different opinion in the highway code.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/index.htm

okay, edit:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070642.pdf

Possibly wrong. I still think it's a stupid choice of signs.

"Signs with blue circles but no red border mostly give positive instruction."

Then for that sign it says "Turn left ahead". It does not say that you cannot turn right however....seems to be a bit vague: as if it is encouraging people to not turn right, but does not explicitly stop them.

I would still be tempted to fight the ticket (possibly contact the local rag to get a bit of support)...but I guess it depends on what the alternative punishment is if you are actually wrong.

The signage is technically correct, so I don't think there's any grounds to fight it on that case.

Personally I would prefer the (no right turn type) you pictured but that is only a personal opinion.

 

[Over The Hill]

In an effort to avoid doing work this morning I had a look on Google maps. (By evans cycles in Kendal)
The blue sign in the photo IS repeated further back along the road a bit and also the sign for the junction ahead with the road layout on it has a "no right turn" red circle sign on that road.

So it seems to be very clearly marked.

Did they offer you a "driver awareness" course as an option? If so it may be worth considering.

 

[benborp]

the big white arrow on the road also says all traffic in that lane must turn left.

Instructions given by white arrows painted on the carriageway can only be legally enforced when they are supplemented by the words "TURN LEFT ONLY", "TURN RIGHT ONLY" or "AHEAD ONLY". Arrows used in this way are in turn only supplemental to what I think must be a prohibitive sign that is erected in accordance with a specific traffic order. All other white arrows whether unaccompanied by lettering or offering destination details such as "CITY CENTRE" simply offer guidance and can't be enforced.
The highway code is very vague on such road markings.

 

[thomas]

The signage is technically correct, so I don't think there's any grounds to fight it on that case.

Personally I would prefer the (no right turn type) you pictured but that is only a personal opinion.

I reckon that you probably could fight and win the case, but you'd spend more time and effort looking at the relevant legislation than it's worth.

In an effort to avoid doing work this morning I had a look on Google maps. (By evans cycles in Kendal)
The blue sign in the photo IS repeated further back along the road a bit and also the sign for the junction ahead with the road layout on it has a "no right turn" red circle sign on that road.

So it seems to be very clearly marked.

Did they offer you a "driver awareness" course as an option? If so it may be worth considering.

linky?

 

[HLaB]

linky?

Kendalcottages also posted it a few posts back.

Edit: I still have the link open

 

[Davidc]

That sign is perfectly clear and unambiguous. A very common standard sign that all drivers must know (they passed their tests didn't they?) and cyclists should know.

All that needs to happen is it to be replaced with a no right turn sign, except for buses (and cycles!!). No ambiguity there....and no more signs either.

Heck, you could even remove the left arrow on the ground then

If you did that you'd completely change the meaning.

As it stands it states that you MUST turn left. No ambiguity, no options, just do it.

To do it with other signs you'd need to put up a load of signs barring straight on and right. it would mean loads more signs and they'd be totally confusing to anyone new to the junction, whereas YOU MUST TURN LEFT AND NOWHERE ELSE is absolutely clear.