I had the RLJ discussion today while out riding...

[jimboalee]

Well the bad news is that it's only going to get worse. The annual 2 wheeled migration is well underway around here. I guess it's worse this year due to fuel prices.
While i welcome the sight of more cyclists, there is an inevitable rise in pavement cycling, RLJing and undertaking.

Cycling's a bit unusual in that the common perception is that if you can ride a bike then you are a competent cyclist; that there is no roadcraft involved. So it is something that everybody, including children can do, but not many can do well, or safely.

Freudian slip.

 

[Twenty Inch]

If it's selfish to want to live to see my wife and kid in the evening, then I am selfish. As it happens, my current commute doesn't call for safety-RLJing, but I don't discount a return to it if my route changes. GavinTC's post above bears out my point - that in some sets of circumstances, RLJing is a self preservation move.

 

[psmiffy]

You cannot legislate against people who do do not give a Damm - The last time I cycled across London fully panniered I was waiting at some lights behind a bus with another one on my left - a guy came up behind me - physically elbowed me out of the way and slipped down the little gap between the buses and off through the red lights - after a little initial indignation - I had to laugh

I have had the "i've got a mother , thank you" when sternly lecturing a young lady about safety protocols at work - there is somehow an attitude in some people that the rules were not made for them

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

If it's selfish to want to live to see my wife and kid in the evening, then I am selfish. As it happens, my current commute doesn't call for safety-RLJing, but I don't discount a return to it if my route changes. GavinTC's post above bears out my point - that in some sets of circumstances, RLJing is a self preservation move.

I'd mentioned that in my post... if in Naples everyone is as bad (drivers too by the sound of it) then it becomes "more acceptable" as a self preservation tool, but still not right just because others are doing it.

As for over here I'd still say that hanging back is as effective a strategy - no need to always get to the front and thus have to use the "it's safer to RLJ" argument.

Just my opinion, mind.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

I have had the "i've got a mother , thank you" when sternly lecturing a young lady about safety protocols at work - there is somehow an attitude in some people that the rules were not made for them

It's called being a bit thick.

 

[BentMikey]

If it's selfish to want to live to see my wife and kid in the evening, then I am selfish. As it happens, my current commute doesn't call for safety-RLJing, but I don't discount a return to it if my route changes. GavinTC's post above bears out my point - that in some sets of circumstances, RLJing is a self preservation move.

No it doesn't. Intentional RLJing is always selfish - there's no safety involved, just your own selfish convenience. It has bugger all to do with you wanting to return home safely to your family, and it's rather poor to try and justify it like this.

I challenged you before on this one on your Bromley commute, Widmore Road/Kentish way I think was the junction, and you weren't able to justify how jumping the lights made you in any way safer.

 

[gouldina]

No it doesn't. Intentional RLJing is always selfish - there's no safety involved, just your own selfish convenience. It has bugger all to do with you wanting to return home safely to your family, and it's rather poor to try and justify it like this.

I challenged you before on this one on your Bromley commute, Widmore Road/Kentish way I think was the junction, and you weren't able to justify how jumping the lights made you in any way safer.

Not sure I completely agree with this although I would say in general it's true. There's one I do out of all my many routes and I'd be happy to justify it to anyone.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

Not sure I completely agree with this although I would say in general it's true. There's one I do out of all my many routes and I'd be happy to justify it to anyone.

Please do. Streetview images required too, please. Then stand back and watch the arguments.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

Oh yes! I have a bag of Minstrels and 20 mins of my lunchbreak left.

Chuck a couple over here then, please. Still a bit peckish.

 

[martint235]

Sorry I know that BM sounds like he's not entirely confident he's on the right junction but if he's right, I agree 100%. Widmore Road/Kentish Way is open with fairly good visibility and with no reason at all to RLJ, it just needs correct positioning if you're turning right

 

[martint235]

sorry was also going to add there's even an ASL there.

 

[gouldina]

Please do. Streetview images required too, please. Then stand back and watch the arguments.

OK. Get your teeth into this one boys and girls:

LINK to the junction.
I'm turning left onto Mare Street from Victoria Park Road and then immediately right next to the canal. There are often buses parked in the left hand lane immediately after the turn (they sit there regulating numbers) so that cars are forced to go round them. This means I have to filter across two lanes of car traffic immediately after the turn. In the morning when I take this route sometimes, there are huge gaps of non-traffic going south on Mare Street when I have a red. Therefore I often slip out and take my right without any danger at all to anyone.

Off you go

 

[gouldina]

Actually, the streetmap views are perfect. There's a bus in the place I described. Also note that the filter lane for going right is rather narrow and a bit unsafe when big vehicles come both ways.

 

[gouldina]

I'd be inclined to RLJ tbh. Impossible to hold primary on two lanes of traffic. And like you say you have to move across (in rush hour no doubt?).

Being pragmatic > Breaking the law imo.

Yeah rush hour. As I say, I almost never RLJ but this is one situation where I do because it always feels miles safer.

 

[gaz]

The only time IMO when it's justified to jump a red is when the lights just turn and there is a vehicle directly behind you. You can't be sure if it's going to stop and thus you keep going.
Always stop and start in the middle of the lane so you have control of it when you start. and as long as you make your intensions clear then your in the ok

With the example that Gouldina gave. just take primary in the first lane, and if there are buses there just indicate early and make plenty of eye contact. Give a thank you wave or a thumbs up if someone lets you in. No need to jump a red imo.