I had the RLJ discussion today while out riding...

[martint235]

Sorry but I'd move to the right of the left hand turn lane then hold the right hand side/centre of the road until my right turn. I perform a similar manouvre going home from work where I hold the centre line. With buses parked there, there's only one lane available to use.

 

[gouldina]

With the example that Gouldina gave. just take primary in the first lane, and if there are buses there just indicate early and make plenty of eye contact. Give a thank you wave or a thumbs up if someone lets you in. No need to jump a red imo.

Sorry but I'd move to the right of the left hand turn lane then hold the right hand side/centre of the road until my right turn. I perform a similar manouvre going home from work where I hold the centre line. With buses parked there, there's only one lane available to use.

Whilst I see that both of these solutions are feasible, and I have done something like both of them on different occasions, it just doesn't feel anywhere near as safe as an RLJ when the road is completely empty - which is the only time I do it btw.

 

[Twenty Inch]

No it doesn't. Intentional RLJing is always selfish - there's no safety involved, just your own selfish convenience. It has bugger all to do with you wanting to return home safely to your family, and it's rather poor to try and justify it like this.

In your opinion.

I challenged you before on this one on your Bromley commute, Widmore Road/Kentish way I think was the junction, and you weren't able to justify how jumping the lights made you in any way safer.

The justification is a simple one - it's safer to cycle across a junction when there is no traffic on it, than it is to mix it with muppets changing lanes, not indicating, and not giving a toss about cyclists. Tweedy Road is a dual carriageway and the junction with Widmore Road is poorly thought out and makes no consideration for cyclists. The other end of Tweedy Road is very poor if one is heading down the High Street.

Until roads are designed for the safety of all users, until drivers are trained properly, until swingeing penalties are handed out to those who speed, kill cyclists, use mobile phones, drive without insurance and licences, until then I reserve the right to RLJ when it will make me safer, and you and all the other self-appointed arbiters of all cyclists' behaviour can stick it up your seatpost.

Mind you, I haven't RLJ'ed for probably 4 years now.

 

[snailracer]

I don't see how RLJing a junction is any more dangerous than a ped crossing the street - you look both ways to see if it is clear and cross.
PS I don't RLJ (much) but that's out of sensitivity to motorists, and because I am conditioned to stop because I am a motorist as well.

 

[martint235]

Snailracer, sorry but it's not illegal in the UK for a ped to cross the road anywhere they choose (as far as I know, happy to be corrected if we do a jaywalking law) however it is illegal for a road user (which includes cyclists) to go through a red signal.

Sorry.

 

[gouldina]

Snailracer, sorry but it's not illegal in the UK for a ped to cross the road anywhere they choose (as far as I know, happy to be corrected if we do a jaywalking law) however it is illegal for a road user (which includes cyclists) to go through a red signal.

Sorry.

Get off bike, walk two feet, get back on bike. Same effect but not illegal (as far as I know, happy to be corrected ).

 

[snailracer]

I am not talking about the legality, I am talking about the risk. I am not even saying I am right.

Are there any stats that show RLJ is dangerous?

 

[BentMikey]

The justification is a simple one - it's safer to cycle across a junction when there is no traffic on it, than it is to mix it with muppets changing lanes, not indicating, and not giving a toss about cyclists. Tweedy Road is a dual carriageway and the junction with Widmore Road is poorly thought out and makes no consideration for cyclists. The other end of Tweedy Road is very poor if one is heading down the High Street.

Oh come on. This is a simple junction, and it's very straightforward to use. There's no need to RLJ to cross it in any of the possible directions/turns with ease and safety, and there's no way RLJing makes it any safer at all. Martin has it spot on in his post earlier.

Notice I didn't give swea'pea any stick for admitted RLJing? That's because (s)he didn't try to give any unfounded safety "justification".

 

[upsidedown]

I pledge to donate £5 to charity when this thread reaches 50 pages.

 

[Twenty Inch]

So it's ok to RLJ if I don't do it safely?

Which junction? I mention 2.

When are you coming to see where the Royal Charles was captured, anyway?

 

[BentMikey]

I can't see anything wrong with Martin or Gaz's solutions in Gouldina's example. RLJing isn't going to add safety there either, IMO.

 

[Twenty Inch]

In any event, I'm not even sure they're the junctions I mentioned in our original exchange. However even you can't deny that cycling across a junction when there is no traffic on it is safer, obviously, than cycling across it in traffic. Try it on the East India Dock Road/Blackwall Tunnel Northern Approach some time.

 

[gouldina]

I can't see anything wrong with Martin or Gaz's solutions in Gouldina's example. RLJing isn't going to add safety there either, IMO.

So are you saying it's as dangerous to be free to maneuver on an empty road as it is to be trying to cross moving traffic? See, that seems highly implausible to me.

 

[snailracer]

If safety is really your priority, get off and walk.

If you don't want to do that, then safety isn't your priority.

Statistics say, per mile, cycling is as dangerous as walking, and both are about 13 times more dangerous than driving.

 

[gouldina]

If safety is really your priority, get off and walk.

If you don't want to do that, then safety isn't your priority.

It's one of my priorities certainly. In the real world however, people have multiple, conflicting priorities.
Normally I avoid this junction altogether by going on the canal but they've temporarily shut that section for a while now so I have little choice.