I had the RLJ discussion today while out riding...

[BentMikey]

That would be the best possible situation, gouldina, but speaking generally, it's rarely as optimum as all that. Often you'll get much faster motor vehicle traffic coming along just when you're most vulnerable to it, and that means dealing with hugely increased passing speeds, rather than being in the queue and at a much more similar speed. Easier to negotiate like that, and safer too. You're also ignoring the small amount of irritation and heat you're producing in the motons around you.

 

[BentMikey]

20", the other junction? Do you mean the Tweedy Road T-junction with London Road? That one isn't badly designed, it works really well and is excellent for cyclists.

The previous junction, A21/Widmore Road, is most definitely the one we talked about before, btw.

I've kept quiet on the Medway for a bit, sorry. I've been waiting to see if my bro wants to come along on a visit, and thought I'd get back to you if that were possible.

 

[gouldina]

That would be the best possible situation, gouldina, but speaking generally, it's rarely as optimum as all that. Often you'll get much faster motor vehicle traffic coming along just when you're most vulnerable to it, and that means dealing with hugely increased passing speeds, rather than being in the queue and at a much more similar speed. Easier to negotiate like that, and safer too.

Well as I said, I only do it when the road I'm going onto is completely clear - and you can see a long way up that road for oncoming so I reckon that doesn't apply here.

You're also ignoring the small amount of irritation and heat you're producing in the motons around you.

I am indeed and frankly I feel very little guilt about it given that it endangers no-one. I always stop at lights, ped crossings, don't go down one-ways the wrong way, don't cycle on pavements. I'm a model cyclist in all respects apart from this one junction which I normally avoid anyway.

I understand the argument here but I don't see motorists worrying overly and beating themselves up about the appalling and dangerous things they regularly do to cyclists (indeed, the reverse is true) so I don't intend to don a hair shirt over this small and harmless transgression sorry.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Gouldina - hurrah! Thank you for saying it much more nicely than me.

Mikey - cool - as I said, Friday mornings are good. We could drive.... : ) Upnor castle opens soon.

 

[Twenty Inch]

20", the other junction? Do you mean the Tweedy Road T-junction with London Road? That one isn't badly designed, it works really well and is excellent for cyclists.

The previous junction, A21/Widmore Road, is most definitely the one we talked about before, btw.

I've kept quiet on the Medway for a bit, sorry. I've been waiting to see if my bro wants to come along on a visit, and thought I'd get back to you if that were possible.

I don't use them now, perhaps if I did I wouldn't RLJ. But anyway....

 

[snailracer]

I am not talking about the legality, I am talking about the risk. I am not even saying I am right.

Are there any stats that show RLJ is dangerous?

My 2nd-hand source says RLJ accounts for only 2% of cyclist killed or seriously injured:

http://road.cc/content/news/12065-cyclists-not-blame-road-casualties-says-study-commissioned-dft

 

[brokenbetty]

Well as I said, I only do it when the road I'm going onto is completely clear - and you can see a long way up that road for oncoming so I reckon that doesn't apply here.

Cool - are you ok for cars to RLJ on clear roads as well?

 

[snailracer]

Statistics say, per mile, cycling is as dangerous as walking, and both are about 13 times more dangerous than driving.

And walking across the road on a green man as opposed to cycling through a red?

As far as I could tell, the accident stats do not exclude those who were using the highway in obeyance with the law. They won't exclude you, either.

 

[psmiffy]

My 2nd-hand source says RLJ accounts for only 2% of cyclist killed or seriously injured:

http://road.cc/content/news/12065-cyclists-not-blame-road-casualties-says-study-commissioned-dft

I think it it is nearer 5% for overall -about 5 and about 300 odd seriously injured - the report for London indicates 5 out of 69 (5 out of 34 at traffic lights) which is a bit more. I cannot see where the 2% figure came from unless they misquoted the figure for vehicles - correct me if I have got this wrong

 

[Arch]

"I've already got a mother thank you"

To which a suitable reply is "Well, I hope she doesn't find your funeral too hard then...."

Or maybe she was cedric in disguise.

 

[automatic_jon]

The only argument I've heard with regards to safety that make sense for RLJing was young women getting attacked around dusk & after dark. On the sort of quiet roads where one ends up waiting for the lights to change with no other traffic around.
In those circumstances, and especially as the person making the point to me was from Johannesburg, I can see that there really is a safety benefit. Weighing up the chance of a twunt coming out of nowhere across the junction and mowing me down and the chance of being mugged, raped or something else unpleasant happening I'd go with the RLJ.

 

[Arch]

But the woman in this example wasn't in a deserted area was she? I can see your point about that - if threatened, I'd take off in that circumstance - but I've never felt the need to jump because of someone behind me.

 

[snailracer]

I think it it is nearer 5% for overall -about 5 and about 300 odd seriously injured - the report for London indicates 5 out of 69 (5 out of 34 at traffic lights) which is a bit more. I cannot see where the 2% figure came from unless they misquoted the figure for vehicles - correct me if I have got this wrong

I was using the link I quoted (not the link's link, which may be more authoritative):
"...according to police reports studied as part of the research, wearing dark clothing at night was thought to be a possible cause of just 2.5% of accidents resulting in serious injury to the cyclist, with not using lights or jumping red lights each blamed in 2% of cases. "

 

[Arch]

I've seen that video, you'd just fall over.

 

[snailracer]

They also include drunks, the old and the vulnerable.

I asked whether you thought walking over a crossing on a green man is safer than running a red on a bike. Your statistical comparison is pretty irrelevant.

No idea, don't have any stats for your specific query. If you want my opinion, it is as safe as having kids apply the green cross code when crossing a road that doesn't have any controls at all. A junction is more complicated than the middle of a road, OTOH the RLJ cyclist will clear it in less time than the kid will take to cross. I am not saying RLJ is good, I am trying to quantify the risk and others can decide for themselves.
The stats do not specifically exclude those who are not drunk, not old and not vulnerable, either .