If you could cycle exclusively on cycle tracks, would you?

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Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
Nearly 60 and been riding since I was a kid on the road. Never been killed or injured by a car.

I have (the latter, obviously, not the former), in March this year. But it was my fault, not the car driver's fault.

In my life (I'm 63 now), I have been knocked off by a motor vehicle on 3-4 other occasions, none of which resulted in any more than minor grazes.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I've been pretty lucky. I've only been knocked off once, back in the 80s (left hooked on the Walworth Road outside a big bike shop that no longer exists*. They were very nice and gave me a cup of tea while I gathered myself. Driver didn't stop). I had a bad crash a couple of years ago, but that was my own fault - I hit a deep pothole that I should have avoided.

* Edit: Oh yes it does. https://edwardescycles.com/
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
If that was possible for you, even for longer 'roadie' distance sides, would you ditch the road if the cycle lanes were wide enough and well maintained?
Yes. One of the reasons I moved to my current home is that I can get all the way to the town centre and half the way to my doctor's on decent cycleways. Still not perfect, but a hell of a lot more fun than riding miles of narrow 40mph roads with a stream of motorists following. I'm pretty stubborn and have a fair brass neck, but I'd tire of doing that every day.
I don't know if it is true, but I hard that it was more dangerous on cycling infrastructure than on normal roads. I assume this includes magic white paint and not just cycle tracks. @mjr is likely to know.
You probably heard that because a certain type of anti-cycleway cycling advocate likes to say such things. There's not really much evidence for it. Or against it, either, though. Having enough cycleways of any consistent standard to have enough incidents to make any useful generalisations has been pretty unusual until recently. I'll try to summarise what I remember:

There's a couple of half-cock analyses by John Franklin which claimed Milton Keynes's cycleways were more dangerous than the roads, but drilling deeper found (if I remember correctly) that he'd lumped all types of cycleways in together, from the bendy driveway-crossing residential ones to the much safer "grid ways", and he counted any crashes at a junction as for the cycleway not the road, plus he'd not adjusted for the types of cyclists: I lived there during the study time and it was mainly the fast roadies who still rode on roads — so experienced riders probably less likely to crash, but probably in bunches and at higher speeds when they do, mitigated by gloves, glasses and maybe other protective gear — with the rest of us using the adjacent redways, including the annoying underpasses swapping from one side of the road to the other.

There's also an oft-quoted study from about 1990 which was something to do with Lund University, looking at 1980s roadside cycleways somewhere, which claimed a 3x increase in danger for with-flow cycleways across side roads up to 11x for contra-flow at a major crossroads. That's the sort of study where the devil is probably in the detail, but there's no indication of assessing it for cycleway width, set back into the road signs, markings or kerbs or posts or whatever. It's contradicted by a recent study of the London CS routes, which found no significant difference, but that may also be down to a "safety in numbers" effect from attracting/concentrating cyclists onto the CS routes, or the small difference in speed (if any) between motorists and cyclists in London: it's difficult to left-hook someone if you're not going fast enough to pass them.

So, in short: it's complicated and both have studies to support them, but the older ones are very weak. Personally, I suspect it depends very much on the design of each cycleway. After all, a riverside cycleway with no roads crossing it is unlikely to have many cyclists left-hooked. A cycleway-carriageway junction with good intervisibility won't have many cyclists riding out in front of motorists who blatantly won't stop (no matter what the markings suggest) and will have more motorists see the cyclists approaching and hesitate to run them over while looking them in the eye! This is why we need good standards for common situations and a body like Active Travel England to actually enforce them!
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I'm old enough to just remember these. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-22/reviving-the-u-k-s-giant-network-of-bike-highways

But of course these are only urban main routes.

Actually, they weren't only urban routes. It included some surprisingly long rural cycleways alongside trunk road sections, such as Swaffham to Dereham alongside the A47, but they've mostly been lost under neglect and road "improvements". What little remains which might still be useful (such as Scarning church to Dereham) is unsigned and the county council has no record of there being a cycleway (because there hasn't been since that section was detrunked and handed to them on opening of the Dereham bypasses).
 

lazybloke

Considering a new username
Location
Leafy Surrey
I go to lots of lovely independent cafes, all of them are accessed the road network....none remotely resemble your description above, they are more like your description of the one off the camel trail.

Yes a decent cycle path might attract a business to set up, there are nice ones on such as the Tissington Trail, but its no coincidence they are situated at access points / car parks so serve cyclist, walkers, and those who have arrived by car too to do one or neither of those activities.

see also the tea garden on the camel rail - which next to a road.
Don't think I said anything contentious, just that I prefer the quieter locations for my cafes.

Accessibility by road network is obviously a plus (for dleiveries & customer access), but the bigger the road, the bigger the blight of noise and fumes.

So, motorway services cafes - useful but horrid.
Soul-less high street franchise - not lovely but so
 

Mike_P

Guru
Location
Harrogate
Whilst cycle tracks are vehicle free the same cannot be said of bicycle chasing dogs and pedestrians that suddenly move into your path at the last moment. The amount of near misses of the latter way outranks annually vehicle instances IME
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Whilst cycle tracks are vehicle free the same cannot be said of bicycle chasing dogs and pedestrians that suddenly move into your path at the last moment. The amount of near misses of the latter way outranks annually vehicle instances IME
You live in a place with especially benign motorists, especially hostile pedestrians or just possibly you're doing something odd like not making an audible approach.
 

Vantage

Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
Agreed. In 30+ years of riding I've had but 1 single dog try to run out in front of me at the last moment. It was on a lead and shot out from behind its owner. I didn't have to brake especially hard.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Agreed. In 30+ years of riding I've had but 1 single dog try to run out in front of me at the last moment. It was on a lead and shot out from behind its owner. I didn't have to brake especially hard.
You are lucky!

Nearly!

I was toiling up a steep local hill on my bike when I heard a blood-curdling baying growl. I looked up ahead to my left and saw a huge Doberman racing across a field. I thought I was safe because there was a dry stone wall round the field, but no - the dog leapt over the wall and landed in the road ahead of me.

The dog was so desperate to get at me that its paws were slipping on the road cartoon-style as it tried to accelerate down the hill towards me!

I did a massive back-wheel slide through 180° and sprinted back down the hill with the Hound of the Baskervilles in hot pursuit. It got within about 10 ft of me but I had become a sprinting superstar and powered away from it.

Phew! Only problem was that I was now doing 40 mph into a tight RH bend. I had no choice but to lean the bike right over and try and snap my left pedal off. I managed to get round the bend, but I missed the kerb by only a couple of inches.

I knew someone who lived opposite where the dog came from. I mentioned the incident to him and he told me that the dog had already attacked two other people in recent weeks. I think it was taken away a few days later, presumably to be put down.

I like well-behaved dogs, but beasts like that are a menace. If I'd been a child, I think it would have caught and killed me.
:eek:

I had a Dalmation run into the road, jump up at me, and try to knock me off into passing traffic. That was okay though because its cheerful owner on the pavement said "he doesn't bite and is only being friendly"! :cursing:

I encountered an idiot on a bridleway with 2 aggressive little mutts...
I was riding along a bridleway on my mountain bike when I saw a rambler walking towards me with his 2 Jack Russells running free. Given that virtually every Jack Russell I have ever encountered off the lead has tried to nip me, I anticipated problems ...

CJ: Please, would you hold on to your dogs while I ride by?

Man: No - I have a right to walk my dogs and you have no right to be here!

CJ: Actually, this is a public bridleway and I am allowed here, so please restrain your dogs while I pass you, I wouldn't like them to get hurt.

Man: You have no right to be on a bike on a bridleway, and don't you threaten my dogs!

CJ: Bridleways are rights of way for walkers, equestrians and cyclists and you are clearly ignorant of the law. I am not threatening you or your dogs, I am simply pointing out that I weigh over 15 stone and a big man on a chunky-tyred mountain bike would make a nasty mess of a small dog if there was a collision. I am asking you nicely to hold your dogs for 10 seconds while I ride past - THANK YOU!

Man: I'll do no such thing. You can turn round and go back the way you came!

CJ: Life is too short for this nonsense. Sorry, but I will not be doing a 5 mile detour because of an ignoramus like you. I'll try to avoid your dogs, but if they get hurt it will be due to your stupidity!

I carried on riding and as expected, the dogs ran forward yapping and trying to nip my ankles. One ran straight under my front wheel and almost got crushed. Only emergency braking saved it's neck. And then the other dog sneaked round and bit me! It put a hole through my overshoe but it didn't puncture my skin.

At that point, I started to lose my cool and told the man to leash his dogs immediately or I'd kick the next one to come near me. He just stood there wittering on about how he knew his rights, don't touch his dogs, he'd have the law on me ...

I shook my head, called him an idiot and rode off with the yapping dogs in hot pursuit. :cursing:
There have been several others... :laugh:
 

Mike_P

Guru
Location
Harrogate
You live in a place with especially benign motorists, especially hostile pedestrians or just possibly you're doing something odd like not making an audible approach.

Unfortunately ringing the bell does not always work, one near miss was excused by "I thought it was my phone":wacko:
 

AuroraSaab

Veteran
I probably would. Between the very heavy traffic and the potholes road cycling is not much fun around here. The canal path isn't much fun either. Too many pedestrians to enjoy a gentle bike along at weekends but conversely not much fun to walk either as some cyclists belt down it.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
... would you ditch the road if the cycle lanes were wide enough and well maintained?
It depends. There's decent network up here utilising the old railways between Lancaster & Glasson, Lancaster & Morecambe and Lancaster & Caton which I'll use frequently... unless its a sunny weekend or bank holiday when there's too many other people using them.
 

Mike_P

Guru
Location
Harrogate
Agreed. In 30+ years of riding I've had but 1 single dog try to run out in front of me at the last moment. It was on a lead and shot out from behind its owner. I didn't have to brake especially hard.

You are pretty lucky then as if it's not one running across in front at least once a month its one trying to bite me.
 

Sallar55

Veteran
I think a lot of people discovered cyclepaths during covid, still hasn't gone back to just dog walkers , too busy at times.
 
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