Illegal electric bikes

[CXRAndy]

Seen one or two a while back but havn't seen any for a while.
Personally, i have seen some what appears to be ridiculous conversions, massive motors, 48v batteries that claim 30mph plus but it seems a bit shortsighted if a buyer doesnt realise the drain that is going to have on the battery...or the time such a big battery is going to need to recharge...and the lifespan of said battery is surely going to be significantly shorter...and very expensive to replace.
Seems to me people just see the extra speed benefit, but the drawbacks look significant.

Voltage is not a indicator of power. Only when current and voltage are multipled to give power capabilities.

Using a higher voltage reduces current demand to give the same power, thus reducing heat build up in the Motor windings

Batteries will last along time if you care for them and dont overcharge or run flat

My battery is protected by minimum voltage on the controller, so the system will shut down before batteries get too low


I use a 52V battery and use open software to tweak the motor power delivery for increased range. I have limited max current availability to the motor drive thus keeping temperature in control.

Dont get me wrong, if I were to stupid, I could set the motor to run at 750W constant and at speed over 25 mph- I dont.

It allows my wife to do long rides upto 50 miles at my pace which averages out around 14 mph. She can however destroy me on any incline by selecting a higher power setting. Her bike is a shopper with panniers, full time dynamo lights, we carry picnics, chairs when going for a ride out.

Folks can use ebikes with responsible attitudes

 

[Rusty Nails]

I regularly get overtaken in my car by e-bikers when I am doing 20 mph in our local 20 mph zones.

They are hardly pedalling, how can that be

They are all Deliveroo riders.

 

[CXRAndy]

I regularly get overtaken in my car by e-bikers when I am doing 20 mph in our local 20 mph zones.

They are hardly pedalling, how can that be

They are all Deliveroo riders.

Its likely they are using a speed motor, not a torque sensing system. Any pedal rotation will give a specific power output. For them to do 20+ indicates they are using open software or a addon speed defeat box.

Personally, I believe 20mph should be the max speed before assistance is stopped. It would make ebikes more desirable for commuters, allow the users to travel more aligned with cars in cities/towns. Its all how the power is delivered, not the speed. A steady progressive increase in power will suit the vast majority

 

[Drago]

And the dibble are now being taught what to look for with tuning boxes and dongles. It aint difficult - if you can follow a wire from one end to the other, you can locate such a device.

It's hardly worth the risk of riding otherwise in accordance with a licence, no mot, no insirance etc, but no insurance is the real kicker. Thats a dishonesty offence, shows up on a CRB check, so you can kiss goodbye to ever working in public services, healthcare, or with children etc, and youll get anally invaded for car insurance prices with that on your record.

From what im hearing (one of my chums good old days is head of roads policing in Poshshire) theyre also aware that a lot of chinese kits have 750 or 1000 watt motors, but theyll generally leave you alone if theyre set up within the spirit of the law, ie, pedal assistance only and not pure electric power, 15.5mph cut out, etc. Remember, that's only discretionary, so if you do ride one like that be polite and contrite when the dibble stop you.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Its likely they are using a speed motor, not a torque sensing system. Any pedal rotation will give a specific power output. For them to do 20+ indicates they are using open software or a addon speed defeat box.

Personally, I believe 20mph should be the max speed before assistance is stopped. It would make ebikes more desirable for commuters, allow the users to travel more aligned with cars in cities/towns. Its all how the power is delivered, not the speed. A steady progressive increase in power will suit the vast majority

I don't really have a precise view about what the max should be, but is it not the case that if you make more powerful bike motors that have power assistance up to any speed you will get people who will fiddle the systems to increase that speed?

I am a bit concerned about the safety aspects of an increasing number of e-bikes (and e-scooters) that can be doctored are used by people who have little or no training. Tbf I would also be concerned if a lot of leg-powered bikes started being ridden round our city streets at 30+kph.

 

[wajc]

Can't say I've seen any obvious illegal e-bikes in my area of the country but I was passed last night by someone on a monowheel when I was doing 20mph on a public road. I'd estimate his speed at a little under 25mph

Typical Monowheel.

Got to applaud their efforts to be visible and as safe as possible though - wearing a full face helmet, motorcycle style clothing and what looks like some sort of harness on their back covered in LED lights, as well as a very visible front light on the thing itself (although quite puzzling when you first see it as it is so low to the ground). However I wonder how quick you are able to stop on one of those things in an emergency?

I've actually seen this person on several occasions over the past year including on busy commuting roads in and out of Lincoln and have wondered how he hasn't been stopped yet as there is no doubt over it's legality.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

but no insurance is the real kicker. Thats a dishonesty offence, shows up on a CRB check, so you can kiss goodbye to ever working in public services, healthcare, or with children etc

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that no insurance is a non-recordable offence and does not show up on any DBS check except where the person was convicted of a recordable offence at the same time, e.g. drunk driving.

 

[Pale Rider]

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that no insurance is a non-recordable offence and does not show up on any DBS check except where the person was convicted of a recordable offence at the same time, e.g. drunk driving.

I think that's correct, although disbarring checks are far from simple.

There's an ordinary one and an enhanced one, depending on the role applied for.

I once saw the reply to a disbarring check, several pages, there was a lot more information on it than a simple pass or fail, although I can't remember exactly what it contained.

In other words, the applying organisation is given some information on which to make a judgment.

One might think a conviction for no insurance, even if disclosed, might not cause the applying organisation to reject the applicant - depending on the role they were applying for.

Then there's the complicated matter of spent convictions.

A relatively minor offence such as no insurance will now deemed to be spent after a year.

I think that means it will not show on a regular check, but might on an enhanced one.

 

[Drago]

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that no insurance is a non-recordable offence and does not show up on any DBS check except where the person was convicted of a recordable offence at the same time, e.g. drunk driving.

It does show on DBS checks, at elast in Engerlund. Mrs D has fairly recently turned down someone for a job because of it (before anyone bleats she didn't tell me who, or for what job, or anything else, and I didn't ask - she only mentioned it as I'd raised the topic with her before and it was the first time she'd encountered it herself). That would be an enhanced check for her work, not sure if a regular one would show it.

 

[CXRAndy]

Im in negotiations to import a full suspension commuter with a Bafang Ultra drive. Where we are moving there are miles of off-road trails to enjoy 1000 Watts.

 

[gbb]

Voltage is not a indicator of power. Only when current and voltage are multipled to give power capabilities.

Using a higher voltage reduces current demand to give the same power, thus reducing heat build up in the Motor windings

Batteries will last along time if you care for them and dont overcharge or run flat

My battery is protected by minimum voltage on the controller, so the system will shut down before batteries get too low


I use a 52V battery and use open software to tweak the motor power delivery for increased range. I have limited max current availability to the motor drive thus keeping temperature in control.

Dont get me wrong, if I were to stupid, I could set the motor to run at 750W constant and at speed over 25 mph- I dont.

It allows my wife to do long rides upto 50 miles at my pace which averages out around 14 mph. She can however destroy me on any incline by selecting a higher power setting. Her bike is a shopper with panniers, full time dynamo lights, we carry picnics, chairs when going for a ride out.

Folks can use ebikes with responsible attitudes

I realise voltage doesnt equate to power, I may have not worded it very well, my inference is that these drives require large batteries, large equals considerably more expensive to buy initially, considerably more expensive to replace when theyve been well used. But I am a tight wad

 

[CXRAndy]

I realise voltage doesnt equate to power, I may have not worded it very well, my inference is that these drives require large batteries, large equals considerably more expensive to buy initially, considerably more expensive to replace when theyve been well used. But I am a tight wad

A good battery which isn't overcharged or let to go too low should give upto 3000 recharge cycles. Abused battery may last less than a 1000 cycles.

A difference of say 10 years careful battery care or less than 3 years for a neglected battery

 

[CXRAndy]

My order has now been confirmed. I will now need to wait several months for delivery.

The specifications are very much on par with Riese Muller Superdelite full suspension but with a chunk of extra oomph in the motor department and way less than half the money.

I'm hoping to future proof my riding.

 

[mythste]

My order has now been confirmed. I will now need to wait several months for delivery.

The specifications are very much on par with Riese Muller Superdelite full suspension but with a chunk of extra oomph in the motor department and way less than half the money.

I'm hoping to future proof my riding.

Is it "legal" by UK standards? I don't mean to be contentious, I'm just curious as to how people who are actually in the market for such a machine are viewing what I tend to look at as mostly arbitrary restriction numbers (in terms of wattage and pedal assist).

 

[Pale Rider]

Is it "legal" by UK standards?

No, which is presumably why the purchase has been posted in an 'illegal ebikes' thread.

Possessing, buying, and selling this bike/motor is fully legal.

Using it anywhere to which the public has access is not legal.

That makes the bike all but unusable legally for all of us.

All roads, trails, and cycle paths are definitely out.

If you owned an enclosed field, you could use it there, provided there were no footpaths across the land or any right to roam which exists in Scotland, if not elsewhere.

You could use it at a recognised motorsport event, in the same way it's legal for Lewis to razz his Mercedes F1 car around Silverstone.

Permission from the landowner is a possibility, but no one, whether they own land or not, can give you permission to break the law.

I think you would still be in difficulty in the unlikely event something went badly wrong.

For example, if you knocked over and killed someone on the private land, even if they didn't have permission to be there and you did.