Increase in seizures of illegal ebikes

[Rusty Nails]

I've done 100 mile solo rides at 17mph, group club rides 19+ for 60 miles and once UCI tour of Cambridge 80 miles at 21mph.

So it means I was travelling faster for portions of the ride, inclines, junctions reducing the average

Re speed performance, Im an average, I would say below average cyclist.

There are some on here that have done 18mph average for 300 miles

No one has argued that those speeds are unusual or especially fast for people who enjoy cycling as a sport or performance pastime, but the point is that that type of cyclist is not ‘most’ regular cyclists. They are a relatively small and self-selecting subset of regular cyclists, most of whom probably haven’t a clue, or don’t care about their average speed.

 

[Drago]

No one has argued that those speeds are unusual or especially fast for people who enjoy cycling as a sport or performance pastime, but the point is that that type of cyclist is not ‘most’ regular cyclists. They are a relatively small and self-selecting subset of regular cyclists, most of whom probably haven’t a clue, or don’t care about their average speed.

And who are unlikely in the extreme to be on shared paths mixing it up with peds and normal cyclists while zooming about.

 

[classic33]

I've done 100 mile solo rides at 17mph, group club rides 19+ for 60 miles and once UCI tour of Cambridge 80 miles at 21mph.

So it means I was travelling faster for portions of the ride, inclines, junctions reducing the average

Re speed performance, Im an average, I would say below average cyclist.

There are some on here that have done 18mph average for 300 miles

How much of that was done on an unassisted bike though.
And was the assisted bike legal?

 

[Webbo2]

How much of that was done on an unassisted bike though.
And was the assisted bike legal?

I would presume all of it. Those speeds and distances are not exceptional if you train for cycling which apparently a small minority do.😉

 

[Rusty Nails]

I would presume all of it. Those speeds and distances are not exceptional if you train for cycling which apparently a small minority do.😉

And then only ‘serious’ cyclists.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

All this discussion does show that the arguments for a 20mph motor cut off are rather spurious, as it looks like even proper cyclist have an average speed which is lower than that

and suggests that the 15 mph (OK 25 kph) cutoff is about right - or maybe a couple of mph too high!

 

[Dogtrousers]

Coming back on topic, the reason behind all this willy waggling is whether the 25 km/h cutoff is "fast" as far as ordinary cyclists go, or whether it is a bit slow and should be raised.

To which the answer is: Yes it is slightly fast, on the basis of the DFT and Strava figures I gave above. The case for raising the cutoff is not strong.

These figures guve average speeds in km/h of Strava:20.4(male) 17.7(female) DFT/NTS: 15.

And yes it is possible for some people to train hard and go significantly faster than that, if going fast rather than getting somewhere is the object of the exercise.

(Edit. cross posted with @ebikeerwidnes )

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Most of the "the cut off should be 20 mph" justification is based on
I want to go faster

There are arguments saying that "it is safer" but they are rather dodgy

 

[CXRAndy]

How much of that was done on an unassisted bike though.
And was the assisted bike legal?

Those were all done on a Kinesis Tripster titanium all rounder bike, certainly not a race geometry bike.

I fitted aero 60mm wheels for the UCI event. No motor just little old me

 

[CXRAndy]

Most of the "the cut off should be 20 mph" justification is based on
I want to go faster

There are arguments saying that "it is safer" but they are rather dodgy

Not really, being able to travel(20mph) at what is generally classed now as urban, estate, town, city speed limit.

If you can travel at or near that limit it lessens the inclination of drivers wanting to do silly overtaking.

Going onto the amount of power 250 Watts will assist a rider perfectly fine on flat terrains, but is woefully lacking on steep inclines. 500W I would say is minimum to aid a rider to climb a steep hill without going into lung busting exertion. We are talking about casual riders who use their bikes infrequently.

 

[Drago]

Not really, being able to travel(20mph) at what is generally classed now as urban, estate, town, city speed limit.

On the road, but not on shared paths or cycle tracks where the sensible limit is determined by human factors and not legislation.

Relatively inexpensive options already exist for those that want 20mph motorised travel on the road.

Furthermore, the greet British public are showing writ large that they often cant be trusted to behave and adhere to a 15.5 assisted limit, so the odds of them bejng let loose with more is zero.

 

[classic33]

Not really, being able to travel(20mph) at what is generally classed now as urban, estate, town, city speed limit.

If you can travel at or near that limit it lessens the inclination of drivers wanting to do silly overtaking.

Going onto the amount of power 250 Watts will assist a rider perfectly fine on flat terrains, but is woefully lacking on steep inclines. 500W I would say is minimum to aid a rider to climb a steep hill without going into lung busting exertion. We are talking about casual riders who use their bikes infrequently.

And it remains that, a limit not a target.

I've done some local "challenge climbs" including The Buttress in the past. I'd not regard any as lung busters, as they're taken at a steady pace. Which is slower than the speed on the flat, but that's to be expected. We're now at a stage where the speed, attainable with no effort by the rider has become the important part for some. As it still allows them to say it's a bike. The trickle down effect of that is happening, and it will impact firther on those whose cycles fall within the current UK regulations for electric assistance.

 

[CXRAndy]

On the road, but not on shared paths or cycle tracks where the sensible limit is determined by human factors and not legislation.

Relatively inexpensive options already exist for those that want 20mph motorised travel on the road.

Furthermore, the greet British public are showing writ large that they often cant be trusted to behave and adhere to a 15.5 assisted limit, so the odds of them bejng let loose with more is zero.

The incidents are obviously regrettable for obvious and usually stupid youthful reasons.

 

[classic33]

The incidents are obviously regrettable for obvious and usually stupid youthful reasons.

Sixty-three year old councillor seen riding an unrestricted, therefore illegal, ebike on a narrowed pavement. Narrowed due to work going on on the pavement. Who then crossed the road, at an angle whilst travelling uphill without pedalling. Then taking to the road travelling in the wrong direction.

Reason given when asked, "I was going to the town hall for a meeting."

 

[Dogtrousers]

250 Watts will assist a rider perfectly fine on flat terrains, but is woefully lacking on steep inclines. 500W I would say is minimum to aid a rider to climb a steep hill without going into lung busting exertion. We are talking about casual riders who use their bikes infrequently.

500W? Minimum? Seriously?

This is in excess of what any cyclist except maybe elite ones can maintain for more than a very short time. How long will vary but everyone will be in the red and won't be able to hold it.

If 500W is the minimum assistance needed, and 250W is inadequate then the only conclusion is that humans can't climb hills on bikes.

When I rode the Tourmalet (1,600m at 7.4%) earlier this year my average power was 184W. So how on earth did I get to the top with such inadequate power? It should have been impossible. In actual fact power was never an issue, endurance over the last few 100m of ascent was the problem as my human "battery" ran down.

My peak, which I only held for a matter of seconds at a time was 450W. Still 50W short of the minimum continuous rated power of 500W that you propose.

With a 250W assist I could have "glass pedalled" all the way up, contributing nothing, and still got up OK.

Now the Tourmalet is a pretty gradual incline but on that Pyrenean holiday my wife (who never cycles apart from on holiday) could leave me for dead on more serious 10%+ inclines. She was riding a 250W EAPC mountain bike.

So in what world can 500W be considered as a minimum assistance? Remember this is an assistance, and the rider will be contributing.

What you're describing is a light motorbike, not an assisted pedal cycle.