Increase in seizures of illegal ebikes

[Ming the Merciless]

So the current limits give the riders a free invisible lightweight version of me hidden inside the bike helping them along.

Except you can’t maintain 250W for more than about 30 mins, where as the e-bike can do it for hours.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

NONE can keep up 750W for more than a very few minutes.

A few seconds for most, unless a gifted sprinter

 

[Drago]

Except you can’t maintain 250W for more than about 30 mins, where as the e-bike can do it for hours.

Yeah, come on, a free Dogtrousers!

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Yeah, come on, a free Dogtrousers!

Your e-bike does 15 mph for 30 minutes, then starts spluttering, and soon you are down to averaging 6 mph. After two hours the bearing seize, and the handlebars fall off.

 

[Alex321]

then I watch a stage of the TdF or something and look at the speeds and note that these top professionals on damn near perfect bikes with ideal clothes and zero extra weight- only maintain that sort of speed on the long flat bits and exceed it only on mad run ins to the finish

I think most non mountain stages of all the Grand Tours this year averaged over 40kph (25mph). In fact, the overall average across all stages this year for the TDF was 42.849kph, with only 5 stages under 40kph.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2025/results/average-speed-per-stage

But as you say, that is elite riders, mostly riding in a big bunch, with nothing whatsoever getting in their way to slow them down. Normal amateur riders cannot maintain that sort of pace for any significant time.

 

[classic33]

I think you can thank the two ableist Johns, Forester and Franklin, for that gem. I've not got the exact quote to hand (but can find it on the bookshelf if someone wants) but they each wrote words to the effect that any decent cyclist worth living should be able to do 20mph which would allow them to navigate even the most difficult car-brained junctions safely.

And never mind that it would bring more energy to the crash if anyone - rider or driver - cocked it up, or that drivers are often surprised and fail to cope any time a bike is moving faster than a brisk jogging pace.

Both wrote about increasing legal ebike speed limits?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I have also seen quite a few comments where people say that they need to be able to ride at 20 mph (or greater)
"Because riding at a slower speed on a road is just not safe"

which is a bit weird as there have been normal bikes around for many many years

it is really not a good excuse for increasing the motor cut off speed
and a better argument for increasing the number of cycle lanes
as it is basically saying the roads are not safe for normal bikes

It is just one of those topics where some people will never admit their arguments are rubbish - bit like helmets and lube

 

[Drago]

Its a good argument for buying a legal speed pedelec.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Its a good argument for buying a legal speed pedelec.

Or moped…

 

[Drago]

Well, legally speaking into eh UK thats what road legal speed pedelcs are.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I think you can thank the two ableist Johns, Forester and Franklin, for that gem. I've not got the exact quote to hand (but can find it on the bookshelf if someone wants) but they each wrote words to the effect that any decent cyclist worth living should be able to do 20mph which would allow them to navigate even the most difficult car-brained junctions safely.

And never mind that it would bring more energy to the crash if anyone - rider or driver - cocked it up, or that drivers are often surprised and fail to cope any time a bike is moving faster than a brisk jogging pace.

there is also the point of how fast can a bike stop at that speed
Especially with the reaction times of a normal person bimbling along (at 20 mph) rather than a trained athlete in a race

I have not actually ever seen proper stats about that so I am just wondering

 

[classic33]

there is also the point of how fast can a bike stop at that speed
Especially with the reaction times of a normal person bimbling along (at 20 mph) rather than a trained athlete in a race

I have not actually ever seen proper stats about that so I am just wondering

How many of those trained athletes are doing 20mph on 4" tyres as well.

 

[Gillstay]

My son says cycling in Bristol has got safer for proper cyclists as the car drivers are more careful with the young blades hurting about on e bikes.
We never thought of that as a way to make cycling safer.
Forget yer bike lanes just get a few nutters wizzing about.

 

[CXRAndy]

I think that would fundamentally change the nature of what an EAPC is. Which may be a bit irrelevant now the cat is out of the bag, but anyway...

I think the original idea was for an ordinary bike that was to all intents like a bicycle but had a bit of assistance. 250W / 25km/h are relatively normal figures for an ordinary bike rider. They are human sized figures. So we have a nice way for less fit people to ride bikes in a comparable way to regular cyclists. That was the rather quaint idea behind EAPCs. They are still bikes, but require slightly less effort. And it's fine for them to be used on cycling and shared tracks.

But of course that's not what people want. People want electric motorbikes and light delivery vans (see this thread) that are completely unregulated. And EAPCs become a kind of Trojan horse for obtaining these.

Now, electric motorbikes and light delivery vans aren't necessary a bad thing. But they don't in any way fit with the original remit for an EAPC: An ordinary bike but with some assistance.

750W continuous rated power is inhuman. Not even elite cyclists put that out for prolonged periods. 20mph is a speed that most normal cyclists only achieve with gravity assistance and only very fit sporty types can maintain continuously on the road.

These might be reasonable limits for a new class of light electric moped (possibly subject to less regulation than ordinary mopeds). But they aren't suitable for EAPCs unless we want to throw away the original idea entirely.

Maybe it was just too quaint and optimistic to think that making bikes a bit more accessible would be a good thing, and not just the thin end of the wedge.

750W continuous is not what I meant
using 750W flat out will flatten even a big battery in only a few miles.

Having 750 W available from a motor allows all ages and abilities to travel up any incline in relative ease. This is the attraction to having a fairly powerful ebike, no hill where you live requires you to get off and push,no headwind saps you of energy.

Riding in lower effort zones for 30-60mins is one of the best ways of developing fitness. Done regularly is an excellent way to keep generally fit


Like having a powerful car, you don't need to use full power.

Re speed travelling above 15mph is very common for most regular cyclists, and more dedicated cyclists will achieve those averages over multi hour rideouts. 20 is the maximum. Like speed limits you're not required to go at the maximum

 

[CXRAndy]

I like to see myself as a representative of humanity in this case. My FTP is 250W or thereabouts (probably less at the moment) and 15.5 mph is about the speed I'd ride on a flat or slightly downhill road. So the current limits give the riders a free invisible lightweight version of me hidden inside the bike helping them along.

250W will comfortably propel you along 18+ mph on the flat. In a pack over 20mph is easily achievable.