Insanely expensive bikes

[Dogtrousers]

I disagree.

I think there is a massive difference between having the name easily visible to anybody who glances your way (advertising) and discreet brand name on an item tat people aren't really going to notice unless they are looking for it (not advertising IMV).

And that massive difference is what?

I've missed a chunk of this thread so the answer is probably above.

Bikes have long been heavily branded, but there wasn't so much room on steel tubes to put the frame makers name like PERCY SCROGGINS as there is on a carbon down tube, but it didn't stop them trying. Remember those red Raleighs that desperately tried to convince us that Raleigh didn't only make sturdy three speed roadsters? Brandy McBrandface.

I don't think it's a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing.

 

[Ian H]

People seem to be conflating 'hi-end' with racing. Not every expensive bike is a Ferrari equivalent.

 

[Alex321]

And that massive difference is what?

I've missed a chunk of this thread so the answer is probably above.

This part of the discussion started when Simon said

And what some don't understand is when they buy a fashion item, generally clothes with the brand name in large letters on them, the maker is getting free advertising which the customer is by default, subsidising - !

Others then suggested that any brand name on any item is the same.

My view is that it is only advertising if it is clear and obvious when you aren't particularly looking for it (which is the "massive difference" I am talking of).

The suggestion given there clearly is "free advertising". Some bikes you will almost certainly say would be. But something like my phone, no. It has the word Samsung on the back, but that is only visible if you are holding the phone up, without a case.

My Clarks shoes, have the brand name on the sole, but only in raised letters, which are only visible if I have my feet up on something.

Bikes have long been heavily branded, but there wasn't so much room on steel tubes to put the frame makers name like PERCY SCROGGINS as there is on a carbon down tube, but it didn't stop them trying. Remember those red Raleighs that desperately tried to convince us that Raleigh didn't only make sturdy three speed roadsters? Brandy McBrandface.

I don't think it's a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing.

Agreed. I can certainly see the argument with many modern bikes that the brand name is prominent enough to class as "free advertising".

 

[vickster]

but thanks to years of branding and advertising, your phone will be recognisable as a Samsung and probably your shoes as Clarks

 

[Alex321]

but thanks to years of branding and advertising, your phone will be recognisable as a Samsung and probably your shoes as Clarks

Really?

You must have a lot more brand awareness than I do. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Samsung, a Motorola or a Google phone without a close look or seeing the lettering.

And I wouldn't be able to tell the brand of a pair of brogues, whether is is Clarks, Pavers or one of the expensive independent cobblers.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I can certainly see the argument with many modern bikes that the brand name is prominent enough to class as "free advertising".

And not modern ones too.

Twas ever thus.

 

[harlechjoe]

Some people buy an expensive bike and sell it with very little use, So eventually someone buys a great bike at a more affordable price.

For me the frame of the bicycle is most important. I had my last bike for years and upgraded the components due to wear, tear or personal preference. Although my last bike was never the price of a really expensive bike it certainly worked as well as one. I have every intention of keeping my new bike going in the same way as the past one and should last for a good 10 years or so.

 

[proletaratOne]

Horses for courses, but if I'm going to spend any large sum I would want a bike that does it all, daily running about, touring, day pottering, shopping, trailer towing. I have one though and it was nowhere near a grand let alone 10.

A bike that does it all… unfortunately I don’t think that bike exists

Trouble is like most tools, something that is pretty good at all things is VERY good at nothing

 

[JhnBssll]

"A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one."

People often use this phrase in the negative, leaving off the second half... I much prefer it in full, I learnt it on here only recently 😊

But then I don't have any 'jack of all trades' bikes, just 7 bikes for specific purposes, so what would I know

 

[Oldhippy]

A bike that does it all… unfortunately I don’t think that bike exists

Trouble is like most tools, something that is pretty good at all things is VERY good at nothing

Mine does all I need.

 

[bonzobanana]

I thought the whole point of those super expensive bikes (£15k or whatever the latest price index is) are the same ones that pro teams use, and that's why they are expensive. If the pro-bikes are different, then there's no point having high priced retail bikes?

Same moulds, same materials but surely QC checks and scanning would be much more likely for bikes destined for professional racing. Again I'd point out that the retail Cervelo frames analysed by Hambini and Luescher Technik had serious quality issues that impacted their strength and durability and had poor tolerances. I just can't see those issues being the same for bikes being professionally raced.

 

[fossyant]

MTB's have branding on the underside of the down tube - can be seen whilst in 'the air' for pros, and for us mere mortals, whilst upside down in a ditch. Genius.

 

[Alex321]

Same moulds, same materials but surely QC checks and scanning would be much more likely for bikes destined for professional racing. Again I'd point out that the retail Cervelo frames analysed by Hambini and Luescher Technik had serious quality issues that impacted their strength and durability and had poor tolerances. I just can't see those issues being the same for bikes being professionally raced.

While as has also been pointed out here, in the real world, we are not hearing of excessive failures in such frames.

I think what they are interpreting as "serious quality issues" are in fact almost certainly pretty trivial.

I do agree that the frames raced by the pros are much more likely to have undergone more stringent QA, very likely including scanning.

But I have seen nothing to suggest any significant rate of failure in normal use for any of the main manufacturers.

 

[Smokin Joe]

But I have seen nothing to suggest any significant rate of failure in normal use for any of the main manufacturers.

But it must be true, it was on Youtube. Just follow the link from the "9/11 was an inside job" video.

 

[bonzobanana]

But it must be true, it was on Youtube. Just follow the link from the "9/11 was an inside job" video.

While Hambini is a competent engineer many of his videos are done for shock value admittedly but you can see the issues he is raising. Raoul at Luscher Technik is completely different, he is a huge fan of CF and has even made his own CF frames. He is an ex-Boeing CF engineer and he is very plain speaking with no obvious bias I can find and I pretty much trust completely what he states. When he is literally showing you the voids and issues in these frames how on earth can you doubt it? From what I've seen elsewhere such manufacturing issues reduce the stated load capacity of such frames so if you have a CF frame stated for riders up to 120kg but with serious manufacturing issues the real weight rating for that frame could be maybe 60-90kg because of the structural imperfections. That's just a random figure I have come up with but you get my point that structurally they are much weaker but still sufficient strength perhaps for the majority of cyclists who ride them. A compromised frame structurally doesn't mean immediate failure but obviously there is a huge safety implication especially for heavier riders.

The fact is you can have two identical CF bikes but one is significantly weaker than the other despite both being used to the same level. You can get that with aluminium and to a lesser extent steel if one frame has been used far more than the other with heavily fatigued tubes but not straight out of the showroom typically.