It's on days like these.....

[wiggydiggy]

I think a wheel just came off this thread

Possibly sorry I just remembered the doc being good when I watched and thought I'd mention it....

Er anyway on topic -

Commute this morning was bus, wayyyyy too windy. I'm fortunate that my train pass also doubles as a bus pass so I do have that option as the bus's are almost too expensive to use regularly.

Would I have used my car (if I had one), not to replace my bike/train commute no - the town I work in requires you to plan in advance parking, bike/public transport (or just public transport) is more convenient (for me).

 

[kerndog]

On the vanishingly small off chance that it hasn't been expressed clearly enough, I think that there is a tendency for people to confuse the consequences of their choices with genuine need.

ok so your saying that anyone who thinks they need a car is actually confusing their need with the consequence of their choice?

so my wife needs a car to do her job as a child minder which involved lots of runs to different locations to pick up and drop off children, but that's not a need its a choice, because she chose to do that job? What she should really do is quit that job and get a bike, right?

so we chose to get a job to feed our family's therefore its not a need but a choice. It's not a genuine need to earn a living and keep my family fed? For my wife to be able to do her Job? for anyone to be able to do the above. Instead we should all chose to get jobs locally even though there arent any, and get bikes. sod the kids, sod the economy.

Your position is laughable. As well as being grumpy, spiky and rude, you are living in a totally unrealistic dream world. Have fun with that

 

[kerndog]

Nice talking to you too.

so that's a yes then? You actually think like this? wow

 

[theclaud]

so that's a yes then? You actually think like this? wow

Why the need to rationalize your choices? We all have choices, although some have more choices than others, and our choices are constrained by our needs (few of us have the choice of not working at all, for example). I don't own a car, so that excludes me from all jobs that require me to own one (including jobs that might pay more than the one I have). If I were to buy a car in order to get a job, that would be a choice. It might be an understandable choice, but it's a choice nonetheless. It would be absurd to argue that I suddenly needed a car, as if the need came before the choice.

 

[kerndog]

Why the need to rationalize your choices? We all have choices, although some have more choices than others, and our choices are constrained by our needs (few of us have the choice of not working at all, for example). I don't own a car, so that excludes me from all jobs that require me to own one (including jobs that might pay more than the one I have). If I were to buy a car in order to get a job, that would be a choice. It might be an understandable choice, but it's a choice nonetheless. It would be absurd to argue that I suddenly needed a car, as if the need came before the choice.

So we should chose not to work and pay our bills and feed our kids because cars are evil? I chose to sell my car recently and get a bike because I didn't need my car all the time. But I do need to use my wife's car to get to meetings, which pay the bills and feed the kids - thats a need not a choice. And dont come back with 'having kids was your choice' cos that would just be getting silly now wouldnt it.

My point is that to say no one needs a car is rubbish. I need a car about once or twice a week, my wife needs it every day.

Im off for a drive because I chose to send my daughter to the only school I could, which is a long way away and I chose not to have to make her walk 10 miles home every day - she needs a lift

 

[Monsieur]

My word
Is it a prerequisite now, to be able to offer comments on CC, that you must not own a motor vehicle or even dare to even consider the dreaded thought of buying one?
I'm off to polish my car

 

[bianchi1]

On the vanishingly small off chance that it hasn't been expressed clearly enough, I think that there is a tendency for people to confuse the consequences of their choices with genuine need.

Interesting that you assume situations that individuals find themselves in are a result solely of their choices. Do you accept that 'genuine need' can arise as a result of situations that are out of the control of the individual? (think disability)

The statement "consequences of their choices" seems to me to be over simplistic and does not take into account the many outside influences that dictate the direction an individuals life may take.

I think that in some circumstances a car is essential for an individual, this may be down to their personal choices, or as a result of factors that have rendered all other transport options impractical or even impossible.

 

[snorri]

I think this debate has escalated due to differing use of language.

I need food, water and air for my survival, everything else just adds to my comfort but is not a need. I don't even need a bicycle, but it does enable me to get a lot more out of life.

 

[kerndog]

You have formed the opinion that I am rude. bla bla bla.... blabla...... bla.

you have created the impression that you are rude, because you are. I am witless, yes, but I am still right and you are still a grumpy old narrow minded so and so who is too stubborn to admit that your argument is flawed. People need cars. simples.

But you are right about one thing. i have wasted enough time with this futile argument, and I will exit the debate. So as you ride around self righteously sneering at all cars with your beard and grumpy old man face I shall be driving around when I need to, to do things like earn a living and feed my family - because I need too. It's that or I chose to stop working and go hungry... Hmmmm

 

[snorri]

What do we all think of Chris Hoy now that he has announced his retiral from cycle sport and the word on the street is he will get involved in car racing?

 

[bianchi1]

Tedious that you assume my assumptions. The key word you are missing is "confuse".

I think you are confusing yourself! My assumptions of your assumptions are based on the first two words of your post. ie: "I think". Therefore that statement is indication of your assumptions of individuals thoughts?


You could answer my question "Do you accept that 'genuine need' can arise as a result of situations that are out of the control of the individual?" rather than your standard "you dont know what im thinking post" which you sneak into almost every thread you take part in!

 

[Tim Hall]

you are still a grumpy old narrow minded so and so

Old.

Snigger.

 

[theclaud]

So we should chose not to work and pay our bills and feed our kids because cars are evil? I chose to sell my car recently and get a bike because I didn't need my car all the time. But I do need to use my wife's car to get to meetings, which pay the bills and feed the kids - thats a need not a choice. And dont come back with 'having kids was your choice' cos that would just be getting silly now wouldnt it.

My point is that to say no one needs a car is rubbish. I need a car about once or twice a week, my wife needs it every day.

Im off for a drive because I chose to send my daughter to the only school I could, which is a long way away and I chose not to have to make her walk 10 miles home every day - she needs a lift

Who said that? What you are hearing is not what I have said, but made-up-stuff which presumably arises from whatever guilt lies behind the rationalization. I specifically said that very few people can choose not to work. I can't choose to do whatever job I like or live wherever I please, but that doesn't mean I have no choices. The way some people are going on, you'd think that their next choice was whether to sell their body or go hungry, or whether to sleep under a bridge rather than in a doorway, instead of which it's a series of middle-class dilemmas about how to get the kids to their after-school activities, or whether to move out of the city so as to have a bigger garden. Gimme a break.

 

[kerndog]

So to recap, you can't see alternatives and that makes me the narrow minded one. Bizarre logic you employ.

nope. I can see alternatives, that's why I sold my car and got a bike. It seems to me its you who cant see the alternatives - I chose to work so need a car. It's that simple.

You can wrap your flawed logic in fancy language all you like and then try to belittle people by suggesting its our lack of wit or understanding that is the problem, thing is it's still a flawed and unrealistic logic.

 

[bianchi1]

Who said that? What you are hearing is not what I have said, but made-up-stuff which presumably arises from whatever guilt lies behind the rationalization. I specifically said that very few people can choose not to work. I can't choose to do whatever job I like or live wherever I please, but that doesn't mean I have no choices. The way some people are going on, you'd think that their next choice was whether to sell their body or go hungry, or whether to sleep under a bridge rather than in a doorway, instead of which it's a series of middle-class dilemmas about how to get the kids to their after-school activities, or whether to move out of the city so as to have a bigger garden. Gimme a break.

Its not just the middle class who worry about getting their kids to after school activities...its also working class single parents