Keto Diet

[Bill Gates]

Thank you! Kinda supports my point!

I have already dealt with this study at the bottom of page 2 of the thread. It is very very unscientific.

 

[Fab Foodie]

On that basis we should all do nothing except maintain the status quo and carry on our merry way unless or until we die or there is absolutely no doubt as what we should all do for our diet. That's never going to happen.

The thing that annoys me and Jogger is this label of a fad diet. It implies that we are flakey individuals with some sort of hippy back ground smoking cannabis. let me remind you that the premise of the diet re Prof Time Noakes was tested in a court of law, not once but twice. You are suggesting that some of the diets, including keto, may cause cancer and other conditions. On the contrary by avoiding foods (carbs) that cause inflammation to the body you are preventing cancer and other conditions from developing. How could you face a loved one in 5 years who (heaven forbid) had developed cancer and say if only we had gone wit the keto diet.

These philosophical, wise, all seeing words of wisdom all sound very good but do nothing for me I'm afraid. I'm a pragmatist first and last.

On your first point, I don't believe at all that the status quo should be maintained, having worked in R&D organisations all my working life, my very being demands that we challenge perceived thinking and look for alternatives. I have no issue with that. But before you roll stuff out to the general public or claim any truths you need to be damn sure of the science and any risks and side effects. Unfortunately health-studies take decades to prove. Hell who know, you and Tim Noakes may be right, but unfortunately as a generally marketed health scheme I would suggest it's too early. I am happy for you and other Keto dieters to continue, you are guinea-pigs and I hope we will all something.

On 'Fad diets' where is the dividing line between what is real, proven and without major side effects that might be a method to separate Fad from Valuable. Is the Cabbage diet Fad? Is Gwyneth Paltrow ever wrong? Is belief enough?

I fear however you are taking a blindly obsessive route (I'm trying to avoid the word Zealous) with this (as seen on the Statins thread), latched onto something as the one and only truth and everybody else is wrong. I am very cautious when I read stuff like this (in bold) which is both overly emotional and factually poor. So it concerns me when I see anybody promoting a new 'truth' and encouraging others to do the same. If it's that clear and simple to you, why isn't the NHS/WHO, sports organisations, cancer research and any others you care to name jumping at the chance to exploit this knowledge?

 

[Fab Foodie]

No further comment

That's not an answer....

 

[Bill Gates]

On your first point, I don't believe at all that the status quo should be maintained, having worked in R&D organisations all my working life, my very being demands that we challenge perceived thinking and look for alternatives. I have no issue with that. But before you roll stuff out to the general public or claim any truths you need to be damn sure of the science and any risks and side effects. Unfortunately health-studies take decades to prove. Hell who know, you and Tim Noakes may be right, but unfortunately as a generally marketed health scheme I would suggest it's too early. I am happy for you and other Keto dieters to continue, you are guinea-pigs and I hope we will all something.

On 'Fad diets' where is the dividing line between what is real, proven and without major side effects that might be a method to separate Fad from Valuable. Is the Cabbage diet Fad? Is Gwyneth Paltrow ever wrong? Is belief enough?

I fear however you are taking a blindly obsessive route (I'm trying to avoid the word Zealous) with this (as seen on the Statins thread), latched onto something as the one and only truth and everybody else is wrong. I am very cautious when I read stuff like this (in bold) which is both overly emotional and factually poor. So it concerns me when I see anybody promoting a new 'truth' and encouraging others to do the same. If it's that clear and simple to you, why isn't the NHS/WHO, sports organisations, cancer research and any others you care to name jumping at the chance to exploit this knowledge?

I've dealt with all the factual stuff to my satisfaction if not yours. You know the answer to why the powers that be aren,t doing anything and that is vested interests keeping control. Again I've dealt with all that to my satisfaction if not yours. The stuff on statins, I would stake my life on that situation. They are poison again backed up factually with science to my satisfaction and not yours. So what we have here is a subjective point of view based on our own thoughts and experiences. That's fair enough. Let's agree to differ

 

[Bill Gates]

That's not an answer....

I did answer it later post

 

[Fab Foodie]

The study relied on the participants remembering over 25 years the carbs they had eaten. Not very scientific is it.

OK, found it. How come the Lancet and their peers made such a mistake, missed that obvious point and published such a shoddy paper? Have you checked the references for the precise methodology and how it was validated?

 

[Bill Gates]

OK, found it. How come the Lancet and their peers made such a mistake, missed that obvious point and published such a shoddy paper? Have you checked the references for the precise methodology and how it was validated?

Not something I felt was worth doing at the time. may be when I've got some spare time (like every day now I'm retired)

 

[Fab Foodie]

Nitrates are what is used in the processing of bacon and salami and Ham etc.
I have first hand experience of consuming nitrates. When I was in hospital following my heart attack I was prescribed nitrates. When metabolised Nitrates form Nitric Acid and this dilates the blood vessels reducing blood pressure. We consume substantial amounts of nitrates from vegetables which is where vegetarians get their nitrates from. So we actually consume far more nitrates from vegetables than from bacon et al.

So consuming nitrates is actually very good for us.

Now for the carcinogenic WHO bit. Remember our old friend DR Ken D Berry introduced to us by Classic doo daa.

Right at the end of this video clip (which I watched months ago) he deals with the flaws in the study.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ygs2j0v0sU

You see here is more errant nonsense demonstrating poor grasp of a subject that others may take as fact.....

I have taken Nitrates, I have a GTN Glyceryl TriNitrate spray on my desk. The effect of Nitrates in the blood is completely different to the long-term effect of Nitrates from food in your digestive system. Nitrates/Nitrite along with Haem Iron from Red meat have both been long demonstrated to be a major causative factor in Bowl and Colorectal cancer in particular. Again, this is nothing new, research has been bimbling along on this for over 3 decades now.
Cutting down on red meat and cured-meats is recognised as a sensible health precaution....

 

[Fab Foodie]

I've dealt with all the factual stuff to my satisfaction if not yours. You know the answer to why the powers that be aren,t doing anything and that is vested interests keeping control. Again I've dealt with all that to my satisfaction if not yours. The stuff on statins, I would stake my life on that situation. They are poison again backed up factually with science to my satisfaction and not yours. So what we have here is a subjective point of view based on our own thoughts and experiences. That's fair enough. Let's agree to differ

That's fine, crack-on. I wish you no ill will.
But remember just because it satisfies your criteria does not make it fact or a good thing for others to be doing. Accept to have your thinking challenged and just as vehemently refuted.

 

[Bill Gates]

You see here is more errant nonsense demonstrating poor grasp of the subject that others may take as fact.....

I have taken Nitrates, I have a GTN Glyceryl TriNitrate spray on my desk. The effect of Nitrates in the blood is completely different to the long-term effect of Nitrates from food in your digestive system. Nitrates/Nitrite along with Haem Iron from Red meat have both been long demonstrated to be a major causative factor in Bowl and Colorectal cancer in particular. Again, this is nothing new, research has been bimbling along on this for over 3 decades now.
Cutting down on red meat and cured-meats is recognised as a sensible health precaution....

Just when I thought we were getting on.

you win I've had enough of all this. yes I'm going to get cancer. now what's this lump I've got better get it checked out by my infallible GP

 

[Fab Foodie]

Just when I thought we were getting on.

you win I've had enough of all this. yes I'm going to get cancer. now what's this lump I've got better get it checked out by my infallible GP

There's no winning....

 

[classic33]

Nitrates are what is used in the processing of bacon and salami and Ham etc.
I have first hand experience of consuming nitrates. When I was in hospital following my heart attack I was prescribed nitrates. When metabolised Nitrates form Nitric Oxide and this dilates the blood vessels reducing blood pressure. We consume substantial amounts of nitrates from vegetables which is where vegetarians get their nitrates from. So we actually consume far more nitrates from vegetables than from bacon et al.

So consuming nitrates is actually very good for us.

Now for the carcinogenic WHO bit. Remember our old friend DR Ken D Berry introduced to us by Classic doo daa.

Right at the end of this video clip (which I watched months ago) he deals with the flaws in the study.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ygs2j0v0sU

 

[vickster]

Just when I thought we were getting on.

you win I've had enough of all this. yes I'm going to get cancer. now what's this lump I've got better get it checked out by my infallible GP

I'm not sure anyone would want to know how you've discovered a lump in your own bowel

 

[classic33]

Just when I thought we were getting on.

you win I've had enough of all this. yes I'm going to get cancer. now what's this lump I've got better get it checked out by my infallible GP

Not a nice or funny "joke".
Cancer doesn't give a monkey's who it gets. Currently living with it again.

 

[The Jogger]

Ah I wrongly assumed your evangelism was supported by your own scientific research and expertise

You wrongly assumed that people on the Keto diet eat processed meat, not necessarily true, a lot of people stick to grass fed meat and or organic. Also people who eat a varied diet also eat processed meats unless they specifically say they don't have it in their diet. So please don't assume that all lchf are processed meat eaters and if they was the case bacon sales would be a lot lower than they are. Saying that I buy bacon from M&S which doesn't contain nitrates but my choice. There are now various research findings saying it's ok to eat processed meats.