Keto Diet

[AuroraSaab]

I certainly find that a low carb diet works for me in terms of weight loss. But so does intermittent fasting - which if you are fasting for 24hrs twice a week, as you said, means you are bound to lose weight.

My view these days is that most diets work if you can stick to them for long enough, even the fad diets like Slim Fast. Keto, Paleo, low carb, Atkins, count your macros, can all work if you find them sustainable. Many don't and find the simple healthy eating approach of Slimming World or WW easier to maintain as a lifestyle change long term.

I read a book call Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes which puts forward the carbs/insulin theory and is a compelling case for eating fewer carbs . Personally, I think sugar is a bigger long term health issue than moderate carb consumption.

I have to say though, Bill, your combative and at times aggressive, posts on this thread don't really help your argument.

 

[Bill Gates]

I certainly find that a low carb diet works for me in terms of weight loss. But so does intermittent fasting - which if you are fasting for 24hrs twice a week, as you said, means you are bound to lose weight.

My view these days is that most diets work if you can stick to them for long enough, even the fad diets like Slim Fast. Keto, Paleo, low carb, Atkins, count your macros, can all work if you find them sustainable. Many don't and find the simple healthy eating approach of Slimming World or WW easier to maintain as a lifestyle change long term.

I read a book call Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes which puts forward the carbs/insulin theory and is a compelling case for eating fewer carbs . Personally, I think sugar is a bigger long term health issue than moderate carb consumption.

I have to say though, Bill, your combative and at times aggressive, posts on this thread don't really help your argument.

There is a context that you may not be aware of which goes back to other threads re statins and some aggressive personal attacks against myself. These protagonists can be found and identified as the posters who regularly place a like under any, or even all posts that are in anyway critical of me on any thread you care to mention be it chat or training or whatever. This resulted in me putting up an aggressive defence and resulted in yours truly getting banned.

I don't want to go down the statins route again as I'll be accused of going off topic and get banned again.

Re your post I know you are aware but for the reader carbs are turned into sugar in the body so have the same impact.

I am a lone voice as is Prof Tim Noakes. But the science is on my side. A sort of summary from 35 minutes 10 seconds if you don't want to see it all.

Please watch this. I know its a long clip but its very much worth it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJf8e2E5TsM

 

[AuroraSaab]

Fair enough. I wasn't aware of any previous threads. As a fairly new member I find this site full of so many helpful folk, yet the tone of some of the threads, especially the EU/Brexit/politics ones, is quite depressingly snarky, and that it is very off-putting. It shouldn't be beyond any of us to post in a civil manner without denigrating others.

 

[classic33]

The guy who wrote the book on carbohydrate loading for endurance events is Dr Tim Noakes. If anyone is interested here he is explaining the reasoning behind his U Turn.

The clincher for me is Jurgen Klopp and Liverpool F.C. at the end of the video. Are they on a Keto diet?

There is a context that you may not be aware of which goes back to other threads re statins and some aggressive personal attacks against myself. These protagonists can be found and identified as the posters who regularly place a like under any, or even all posts that are in anyway critical of me on any thread you care to mention be it chat or training or whatever. This resulted in me putting up an aggressive defence and resulted in yours truly getting banned.

I don't want to go down the statins route again as I'll be accused of going off topic and get banned again.

Re your post I know you are aware but for the reader carbs are turned into sugar in the body so have the same impact.

I am a lone voice as is Prof Tim Noakes. But the science is on my side. A sort of summary from 35 minutes 10 seconds if you don't want to see it all.

Please watch this. I know its a long clip but its very much worth it.

Struck off, by the courts, in South Africa.

The Ketogenic Diet is a set amount, each day, every day. Not one you stop and start as you please. Best started under medical advice, where you can get the support when things go wrong.

It's not a diet suitable for everyone. Books and "Dr google" can only make things worse. From someone who was placed on the proper Ketogenic Diet, to try and get me off medication(away from the hands of "big pharma"), but found it didn't work, for me.

Why would someone promoting a diet, post this?

 

[The Jogger]

Moderate carbs? Carbs are sugar, why would you want to moderately poison yourself.

Noakes won his court case in South Africa.

 

[Bill Gates]

Struck off, by the courts, in South Africa.

The Ketogenic Diet is a set amount, each day, every day. Not one you stop and start as you please. Best started under medical advice, where you can get the support when things go wrong.

It's not a diet suitable for everyone. Books and "Dr google" can only make things worse. From someone who was placed on the proper Ketogenic Diet, to try and get me off medication(away from the hands of "big pharma"), but found it didn't work, for me.

Why would someone promoting a diet, post this?
View attachment 503522

How come this Dr Ken D Berry (video below) that you show in your post says this. ??????

"The ketogenic way of eating is the easiest, most sustainable diet I've ever recommended as a family doctor. You can use it to revers obesity, inflammation and other symptoms of chronic disease. It is easy to start, and easy to maintain. You can get started by following these simple steps. Blah Blah"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5N7x8TQrt8


An bit selective to say that Prof. Tim Noakes was struck off, when he won his court case because the science was accurate.

Notwithstanding the situation about yourself that you can't do the keto diet, which I accept as incontrovertible, Are you questioning the science behind the video link? I don't think you've watched any of it otherwise you would have known that Prof. Tim Noakes won the appeal against him because he says so right at the beginning.

 

[classic33]

How come this Dr Ken D Berry (video below) that you show in your post says this. ??????

"The ketogenic way of eating is the easiest, most sustainable diet I've ever recommended as a family doctor. You can use it to revers obesity, inflammation and other symptoms of chronic disease. It is easy to start, and easy to maintain. You can get started by following these simple steps. Blah Blah"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5N7x8TQrt8


An bit selective to say that Prof. Tim Noakes was struck off, when he won his court case because the science was accurate.

Notwithstanding the situation about yourself that you can't do the keto diet, which I accept as incontrovertible, Are you questioning the science behind the video link? I don't think you've watched any of it otherwise you would have known that Prof. Tim Noakes won the appeal against him because he says so right at the beginning.

I posted no video. Please don't say I've done something we both know to be false.

There's a difference between the Banting Diet, promoted by Noakes, and the Ketogenic Diet.

 

[Bill Gates]

I posted no video. Please don't say I've done something we both know to be false.

There's a difference between the Banting Diet, promoted by Noakes, and the Ketogenic Diet.

OK. You interpreted what I posted incorrectly. Please read it again. You mentioned Dr Ken D Berry in some sort of screen save headlining Dr says keto diet is the worst one in the world. My post with the " (video below)" was to show what he really thinks.

I give you the benefit of the doubt as you probably read it with tad of red mist.

There is a difference between the Banting Diet and the Keto diet. So ?

Your inference is that Tim Noakes does not promote the Keto diet. This is untrue as there are innumerous references to Prof Tim Noakes promoting the Keto diet. You need look no further than one of the first posts on this thread with the video clip on the keto diet for athletes, which is of course where we came in. One has to ask if you ever bother to watch any of this stuff. It is after all what the thread is all about. I always read or watch stuff presented to me as has been shown earlier here to promote theories etc. and then counter with reasoned argument instead of rolling out the same old entrenched viewpoints. Lets face it we are never going to agree.

 

[Bill Gates]

I posted no video. Please don't say I've done something we both know to be false.

There's a difference between the Banting Diet, promoted by Noakes, and the Ketogenic Diet.

Sorry I've just been watching the video of of Dr Ken D Berry and the idea that you would have posted it in support of anti the keto diet is frankly hilarious. He is much more a believer than I am.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Dears, can I clarify something here....

Yes, Carbs are made of sugars. Carbs can be simple or complex, dietary fibre is also carbs and this made of sugars albeit in an indigestible construction.
There is a significant difference between the body’s insulin response to simple sugars compared to the different complexity of various carbs. This is important.
Furthermore, the food matrix in which any carbs form a part also impacts on the body’s uptake of those sugars and therefore insulin response.
It’s easy to generalise and simplify but that is to miss the point. Insulin response is the prime factor.
Simple sugars(and some starches) have limited value to the average human, but more complex carbs have their place in any healthy ‘diet’....

 

[The Jogger]

I beg to differ, you get enough carbs your body needs from green veg.
Whether it's white bread or chunky wholemeal bread your body reacts in the same way. Your insulin rises, which leads to all sorts of problems.
We were fooled for years by the food pyramid, lots of carbs on the bottom rising to less meat and fat, it has now turned upside down. Real food, meat, fish, good fats, avacados, olive oil etc etc. You can eat this and not put on weight, it's more of what people ate before the corrupt findings of Ancel Keyes, that's when people started eating low fat, dangerous oils, trans fats, all to the benefit of the processed food brigade and pill pushers.
Obesity rates since the low fat, high carb way of eating was advised have rocketed. If you look at old news clips and photos, obesity was not as evident as it was now because people ate real food and didn't snack on addictive carbs like they do today.

 

[Bill Gates]

I beg to differ, you get enough carbs your body needs from green veg.
Whether it's white bread or chunky wholemeal bread your body reacts in the same way. Your insulin rises, which leads to all sorts of problems.
We were fooled for years by the food pyramid, lots of carbs on the bottom rising to less meat and fat, it has now turned upside down. Real food, meat, fish, good fats, avacados, olive oil etc etc. You can eat this and not put on weight, it's more of what people ate before the corrupt findings of Ancel Keyes, that's when people started eating low fat, dangerous oils, trans fats, all to the benefit of the processed food brigade and pill pushers.
Obesity rates since the low fat, high carb way of eating was advised have rocketed. If you look at old news clips and photos, obesity was not as evident as it was now because people ate real food and didn't snack on addictive carbs like they do today.

For most people who read that their whole life style is based on a false premise that high carb low fat is the way to go it can be very difficult for them to handle.
Health guidelines and the way that meds are given out to deal with symptoms rather than changing what you eat is the normal way society acts.
Once you acknowledge that just maybe what we are being told is wrong, as highlighted by some very brave doctors and journalists, then the scales fall from your eyes; as they did for me one Sunday back in 2005 when I discovered that the side effects of statins had been hidden from me (not deliberately) by my doctors.
When you get a shock like that you cease to place the total trust you had in your doctors ever again.

Edit.
P.S. My Doctor's surgery has its own pharmacy. It is well known that GPs get funding from prescribing drugs like statins, as they are perceived to be preventing CVD by the government. If they have their own pharmacy they are making more on top of that. If there are any GPs out there reading this please tell me where your incentive is to send patients away without a prescription?

Please don't take this as my wanting to start a discussion about statins as this thread is about the keto diet and need to keep on topic (with one eye on the mods). Thank you

 

[Fab Foodie]

I beg to differ, you get enough carbs your body needs from green veg.
Whether it's white bread or chunky wholemeal bread your body reacts in the same way. Your insulin rises, which leads to all sorts of problems.
We were fooled for years by the food pyramid, lots of carbs on the bottom rising to less meat and fat, it has now turned upside down. Real food, meat, fish, good fats, avacados, olive oil etc etc. You can eat this and not put on weight, it's more of what people ate before the corrupt findings of Ancel Keyes, that's when people started eating low fat, dangerous oils, trans fats, all to the benefit of the processed food brigade and pill pushers.
Obesity rates since the low fat, high carb way of eating was advised have rocketed. If you look at old news clips and photos, obesity was not as evident as it was now because people ate real food and didn't snack on addictive carbs like they do today.

I mostly agree, you can get enough carbs from green veg, but you need to eat a fair amount, carbs from beans, pulses, whole grains, spuds and squashes are generally fine too as part of a healthy diet.
Nobody should be living-off white bread, white rice, pizza and pastry, but unfortunately millions do, washed down with Coke for good measure.

I completely agree that the switch to the low-fat diet in the late 70s early 80s was completely wrong. Any student of Biochemistry can explain why. The switch to the wrong types of carbs exacerbated the problem.

I disagree with you regarding Insulin response to different foods. Different foods even different carbs produce significantly different insulin responses, this is well documented and understood. White bread differs from wholegrain/wholemeal. Insulin response is generally a good thing! It’s the nature of that response that’s the issue. Rapid spikes due to sudden simple sugar are to be avoided whereas a low-level background activity is a good thing.
Insulin’s ability to store excess calories has kept humans alive for millenia....

Other factors such as the satiating effects of foods also impact on calorie consumption while socio-economic factors influence food choices and consumption....

It’s not so simple.

 

[Bill Gates]

The slimming world method (they don't refer to it as a diet, a bit of a touchy subject), involves placing foods that are basically green vegetables (speed food) as a third of the plate. A certain amount of wholemeal bread (2 x slices) can be allowed on a daily basis as healthy extras. Other carbs are given a value also and if you add up the syn value and it is less than 15 for women and 20 for men. It becomes a tolerable method of weight loss.

I lost 2.5 stones in 4 months on this diet. The science behind it is basically GI or if you prefer GL of the foods you are eating impacting on the raising of insulin levels. If you combine foods of a different GL in the same meal the impact on insulin levels is averaged out. This is why the green vegetables (speed food) should be a third of your plate thereby reducing the overall GL of the meal.

This is a healthy way to lose weight and one that can be sustained in the long term. Of course where I have veered away is the way that fat is treated. They say to use low fat all the time, due to the calories involved.

 

[The Jogger]

I mostly agree, you can get enough carbs from green veg, but you need to eat a fair amount, carbs from beans, pulses, whole grains, spuds and squashes are generally fine too as part of a healthy diet.

FF why do you need to eat insulin spiking carbs like whole grains, spuds etc they are of very little benefit. They don't contain nutrients the body needs if anything they are detrimental to health. Wheat isn't the crop it was hundreds of years ago, hence the problems it causes peoples guts.
When you go low carb, things like blood pressure drops, glucose drops, your body is getting the fat and cholesterol it needs.
Unfortunately, money has influenced medical interventions, that's why there are so many people taking medications for diseases that can be sorted out through diet. There is no need for grain in the diet, none whatsoever.