Kinesis TI Frame. Should I, or shouldn’t I?

[greenmark]

Van Nics policy, I have not read it all but looks reasonable.

WARRANTY CONDITIONS


Article 1 – Warranty Period

1.1 Van Nicholas will replace (not repair) any Titanium frame that fails due to manufacturer defects in materials or workmanship for the lifetime of the frame. Every bicycle has a limited life, the so-called useable life-cycle. The duration of the useable life-cycle of bicycles depends on the type of frame, the way in which and the circumstances under which the bicycle is ridden and the care/maintenance the bicycle receives. The lifetime guarantee period is established on the basis of the duration of the useable life cycle of the bicycle. Van Nicholas sets the lifetime of their frames at an average of 25 years.

25 years is unusually long for a ti manufacturer. I was looking at this the other day. Enigma I think is 10 years.
Some manufacturers (Litespeed) have warranties for the lifetime of the frame. In other words, when the warranty lasts until the frame breaks – an internet search on their warranty issues will highlight those issues.

Kinesis UK is not a manufacturer but really just a sticker company. They commission open mold frames and components from Taiwan/China and stick their name on them. Basically if you buy a Ti frame through them you would get pretty much the same frame as if you bought directly from a Chinese company on aliexpress. The only advantage is if you get a dud frame immediately then you’re more likely to get a speedy response from Kinesis – the extra you pay is for them to accept the risk of returns plus to cover their margins.

I’ve had a Lynskey frame now for about 3 years. To be honest, were to go back in time then instead I would get a cheaper, lighter and stiffer carbon frame instead directly from one of the China manufacturers such as Hongfu, Dongfu or Carbonda. They’re using the same manufacturing processes for carbon as say Trek, who often use the same factories. Online reviews I’ve seen about them on other forums or on YouTube seem to be really good. You’ll get a lighter carbon frame from them for less than half the price of a Ti frame – so even if it is a dud and you need a replacement then you’re still quids in.

And no, Ti frames do not necessarily last longer than Carbon. Ti withstand scratches better, that’s about it. But a small imperfection during Ti manufacturing might only might develop to a crack many years later, after warranty periods end. So the infinite fatigue life of Ti is only theoretical.

 

[vickster]

I think J Guillem’s is 100 years! (Basically the owners lifetime and beyond)

J Laverack only offer 5 years, enough to put me off

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I’m on the verge of buying a Kinesis GF TI Disc frame.

The only thing that is putting me off is that the warranty is only one year.

That indicates to me a severe lack of confidence in the longevity of the frame.

I own various old Raleigh steel bikes that date from the late 1980's up to the mid 1990's, I have frames made of 18-23 Hi-tensile (24 and 29 years old), Reynolds 501 (23 and 27 years old) and 531 (30 years old) - and despite none of these costing anywhere near as much as a Titanium framed bike, Raleigh was prepared to guarantee their frames for 15 years irrespective of frame material. You can see from the age of my bikes that any well-built frame will last decades in normal use, so any "quality" bike manufacturer unwilling to offer a guarantee that runs into double digit years is sending out the message that privately they do not expect their product to last well, and don't want the financial risk of future long-term warranty claims. There's no way I would pay £2k, or even £1k, for a frame with any less than 10 years warranty.

 

[Venod]

You’ll get a lighter carbon frame from them for less than half the price of a Ti frame – so even if it is a dud and you need a replacement then you’re still quids in.

I agree and have ridden some nice carbon frames but they are a different beast to Ti, with my carbon frames I was always inspecting the paintwork for minor chips exetera, with Ti I just wipe it down and forget it, I have broke a carbon fork completely into two pieces, I have cracked a Ti frame rode it cracked, then had it repaired, I wouldn't ride a cracked carbon frame but they are now repairable.

The price of Ti can be a problem and a cheaper carbon frame may be the best decision for some people, but I love the look and ease of maintenance Ti offers, having said that I have just replaced a Ti frame with a painted aluminium one I may regret it.

 

[Soltydog]

I think J Guillem’s is 100 years! (Basically the owners lifetime and beyond)

J Laverack only offer 5 years, enough to put me off

Laverack now offer a 10 year warranty, same as Enigma. Varuu offer 8 years, but only 1 replacement in that time, so if you have problems in the 1st year & end up with a new frame that's it (how it reads to me anyway) so 3 years for a Kinesis seems on the low side for an expensive ti frame

 

[lane]

Spa offer 10 years; I wouldn't want less than that and can't really see the point of accepting less when many suppliers offer that or more.

 

[AlanW]

Ah maybe it was @AlanW

Yes indeed it was I, truly horrific customer service from Upgrade Bikes the UK importer and also Kinesis UK (although its not in the UK?)

Which given that I had based my purchase on two years worth of research only to be let down by shoddy workmanship and lack of quality inspection. Shame, because it is indeed a stunning looking frame and the test ride I had on one was awesome and every thing that I was looking for. But yes, the warranty period was an issue but I decided that as it was the bike for me, what could possibly go wrong!

As an aside, and only because I needed a replacement winter frame quite quickly after my very sudden demise of my Ridley frame, I recently purchased a Kinesis T3 frame. Yes, I know its a Kinesis frame and yes it did smart buying it, but the geometry suited me the best out of all the frames I looked at. But for a relatively cheap frame, its a great and very responsive ride, love it and can only dream what the Ti would have been like

 

[AlanW]

Kinesis UK is not a manufacturer but really just a sticker company. They commission open mold frames and components from Taiwan/China and stick their name on them. Basically if you buy a Ti frame through them you would get pretty much the same frame as if you bought directly from a Chinese company on aliexpress. The only advantage is if you get a dud frame immediately then you’re more likely to get a speedy response from Kinesis – the extra you pay is for them to accept the risk of returns plus to cover their margins.

I agree about Kinesis UK, but what about the Kinesis in Taiwan which is where the frames/forks are made - http://www.kinesis.com.tw/en/

 

[Tenacious Sloth]

So I'm semi-tempted by a hardly used Kinesis Granfondo Disc frame for £1100.

This is £700 less than a new one - but you don't get the massive 3 year warranty.

Obviously, I would have the check the frame/welds very carefully before parting with my hard-earned as £1100 is still a lot to lose should there be a problem.

I also had a test ride of a Van Nicholas Skeiron, which was very nice but not really the type of bike I'm after. The main reason for testing this model was that it had 28c tyres which is the same as my bikes and so it seemed like a valid comparison to see how much of the road patter the titanium frame removed. It did seem to be a very smooth ride.

I think I want disc brakes, space for 28c tyres with SKS Chromplastics and rack mounts.

I like the Van Nicholas frames and particularly the fact they have a very long warranty, but the one that ticks all of my boxes isn't due to be released until next year (Yukon Disc).

Hmmmm... I really can't make up my mind what to do and so will probably end up doing nothing - which is probably the best thing to do.

Graham

 

[ianrauk]

If you really want that Yukon Disc, then wait. It will all be so worth it.

 

[AlanW]

I like the Van Nicholas frames and particularly the fact they have a very long warranty, but the one that ticks all of my boxes isn't due to be released until next year (Yukon Disc).

Are you sure that is correct about the Van Nic not coming out till next year? I ask because I was looking a the new Yukon frame at the Cycle Show at the NEC at the tail end of last year, and it did indeed tick every box including the life time warranty. Talking to tech guy on the stand he said that it would be available in the UK from March/April of 2018.

That said, I personally know someone that is on his third Van Nic Ti frame in less than five years, both have cracked in the exact same place. But true their word they have been replaced FOC on both occasions. It still doesn't make it right though does it?

 

[vickster]

Call Fatbirds? See what they can suggest?
Not too far from Huntingdon either (under 50 miles)

 

[Tenacious Sloth]

Are you sure that is correct about the Van Nic not coming out till next year? I ask because I was looking a the new Yukon frame at the Cycle Show at the NEC at the tail end of last year, and it did indeed tick every box including the life time warranty. Talking to tech guy on the stand he said that it would be available in the UK from March/April of 2018.

That said, I personally know someone that is on his third Van Nic Ti frame in less than five years, both have cracked in the exact same place. But true their word they have been replaced FOC on both occasions. It still doesn't make it right though does it?

I was in Pedal Barn in Thrapston on Saturday, who told me about the Yukon Disc not being released until next year. They are a distributor for Van Nicholas so would have no reason to tell porkies as they could have sold me one?

 

[Tenacious Sloth]

Call Fatbirds? See what they can suggest?
Not too far from Huntingdon either (under 50 miles)

I've been over there a few years ago. Actually over 60 miles and bit of a nightmare journey - particularly in the summer. Takes at least 90 minutes each way.

If I was going to buy from a dealer I'd prefer them to be a bit closer.

 

[vickster]

Fair enough. Just they carry every brand

Google maps must be fibbing about the distance unless you aren’t in Huntingdon. To note, they are now only a couple of miles out of Kings Lynn