Laura Trott interview about London cyclist

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atbman

Veteran
I got blocked by the ABD on Twitter for telling them their view on speed cameras causing drivers to take their eyes off the road and watch the speedo was bollix...
I occasionally enjoy myself by recalling the road lobby's frantic campaign to reduce the nuber of police radar "traps" which were unsportingly targetting law-abiding drivers, purely for revenue purposes. the lobby claimed that if cameras were more visible (coloured yellow, maybe?) and there were warning signs, drivers would behave and not suffer their involuntary tax contributions

So the govt of the day did as asked and installed brightly coloured (yellow?) cameras accompanied by warning signs that they were there.

So speeding fines fell, didn't they?
 

Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
Re: the cycle helmet issue. I heard a comment on the radio last week where someone was quoted as saying that if you wear a cycle helmet, you take more risks...

I did wonder what medication the person who said that had been on or maybe they'd been drinking because of all the arguments against wearing a helmet that (and the one where drivers are more likely to take LESS care around helmet wearers because they're more protected than those without) is perhaps the most ridiculous and I wonder if it was just an opinion or whether there's proper evidence to back it up.

For the record, I choose to wear a helmet and I don't give a monkeys' if no one else wants to - as long as you don't hurt anyone else, do what you like :becool:
 

Paul99

Über Member
Re: the cycle helmet issue. I heard a comment on the radio last week where someone was quoted as saying that if you wear a cycle helmet, you take more risks...

I did wonder what medication the person who said that had been on or maybe they'd been drinking because of all the arguments against wearing a helmet that (and the one where drivers are more likely to take LESS care around helmet wearers because they're more protected than those without) is perhaps the most ridiculous and I wonder if it was just an opinion or whether there's proper evidence to back it up.
.

Why is it ridiculous? I think it is quite likely that the more 'protective equipment' somebody might wear, the greater risk they would be prepared to take
 
It's Risk Compensation, the same reason accidents spiked after seat belt legislation, the same reason 4x4 drivers break the law more often.
 

gambatte

Middle of the pack...
Location
S Yorks
Wikis got them listed as accused of inflating their membership numbers. Sources put that at between 300 and 3,000.

There’s 38m registered British drivers.

At best that’s “The Association of 0.008% of British Drivers”
 

Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
Google 'Peltzman effect' for more information.:smile:

Hmm, I don't think the Peltzman effect covers it... rather than being an observed phenomena, it's all about what 'may' happen in a hypothetical scenario. Applying the Peltzman effect is also reliant on the assumption that people wearing cycle helmets believe that the helmet offers unlimited protection against any kind of collision.

And I don't believe that you can fully apply the same idea of risk compensation to people ON a vehicle as to those IN a vehicle. Motorists are inside a 'protective' environment, cyclists are completely exposed so a safety device for a car isn't going to have the same effect as one on a cycle.

Of course there are people who are going to act against what is logical or the norm, but do you make a generalisation about cycle helmet wearers based on stupid/illogical behaviour?

As an example, take 2 groups of cyclists you get in London, the cycle couriers and the bike hire cyclists. Typically, the majority of people in these 2 groups don't tend to wear helmets: the couriers because they seemingly don't want to and the hire cyclists because (unless they are in the minority of users that commute on them) they don't have access to them. Couriers (in my observation) are the most reckless group of cyclists around, the idea seems to not be 'if' they get hit, but 'when'. Most of the hire cyclists in Central London are tourists unfamiliar with the UK highway code so their cycling is inherently more risky.

As I say, I think it's an individual's choice whether they want to wear a helmet, the only person the decision affects is themselves but I don't buy into this psychobabble second-guessing about how people act or react to helmets. I personally wear one because I don't want to get hit, wearing the helmet is one element to that, riding safely is another. The idea of putting on a helmet and going 'woohoo, eff you society, I'm invicible!' is completely alien to me.
 

Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
There is very clear evidence for Risk Compensation. Whilst Risk Compensation amongst cyclists is a relatively minor issue, Risk Compensation by motorists isn't. As studies like that carried out by Dr Ian Walker in Bristol have shown, motorists take less care around cyclists who wear helmets.

Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant as the evidence is fairly clear.


Lies, damn lies and statistics ^_^
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
I personally wear one because I don't want to get hit.
I don't want to get hit either. Will wearing a helmet help with that?
 

Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
I don't want to get hit either. Will wearing a helmet help with that?

I can't tell you what to feel Dan, I personally feel that if I did get hit and my head connected with the tarmac that the helmet would offer more protection against brain damage than just my skull.

If you feel safer without a helmet then don't wear one.

I also do stuff like stopping at red lights and not undertaking left-turning vehicles, I feel that all these measures lessen (but not eliminate) the likelihood of an accident.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
I can't tell you what to feel Dan, I personally feel that if I did get hit and my head connected with the tarmac that the helmet would offer more protection against brain damage than just my skull.
Oh, OK. It's just that when you said upthread that you wore one because you didn't want to be hit, I thought it would help with that. Last time I was hit by a car I got a huge whack on the knee and a bruised rib plus it trashed various parts of my bike, and I'd quite like to avoid that happening again
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
Hmm, I don't think the Peltzman effect covers it... rather than being an observed phenomena, it's all about what 'may' happen in a hypothetical scenario. Applying the Peltzman effect is also reliant on the assumption that people wearing cycle helmets believe that the helmet offers unlimited protection against any kind of collision.

And I don't believe that you can fully apply the same idea of risk compensation to people ON a vehicle as to those IN a vehicle. Motorists are inside a 'protective' environment, cyclists are completely exposed so a safety device for a car isn't going to have the same effect as one on a cycle.

Of course there are people who are going to act against what is logical or the norm, but do you make a generalisation about cycle helmet wearers based on stupid/illogical behaviour?

Risk compensation is almost entirely subconscious. That is, people who feel subjectively safer tend to take more risks.
That's why I think we should fit metal spikes in the middle of steering wheels and watch fatalities plummet.
 
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