Left hook at oval result
- Thread starter gaz
- Start date
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Wahey! Victim blaming!
In case not clear - "The driver was totally guilty..."
Not sure there is much 'victim blaming' - I simply suggested that with maybe some more 'street awareness' the incident may have been avoided - at no point did I say that the cyclist was to blame.
I am afraid that jumping on me like that doesn't actually help! Hopefully my soft and reasoned point may get people to think or be more aware or support the whole principle that it simply doesn't matter who is to blame, it is most likely the cyclist that will be seriously hurt
Driver was 100% at fault and if you prefer - to blame. Agreed!
The cyclist may have shown SOME street smarts by not going under the wheels but hopefully you can see what I mean? Or not?
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Jeeebus Crust, Slaav!!! Victim blaming FFS!!!
She did fine there. She detected the left hook and avoided pretty well, IMO. I don't think all of us on here would have done better than her, and I don't think we would have been able to take the lane in that situation with that level of rushing traffic either.
The only problem there was the nut holding the steering wheel.
A more experienced cyclist probably would have shoulder checked over their right shoulder, although in this case the driver did not bother to indicate until actually starting to turn, so a moot point.
I think I will get back in my box now.... You make a fair point and I will admit that it is very different on a motorbike where one has the ability to sit in the middle of the lane and avoid this sort of thing happening. WIth the volume and speed of traffic, it would have been very tricky at her speed to take up such a position but that would be where the 'life saver' and then a signal or similar to indicate straight on MAY have helped having caught eye contact.
I also agree that many of us may well have coped an awful lot worse than she did in the split second where it all unfolded. Many may well have gone under the wheels - maybe that is where we should all focus? Even 'experienced' people may have been seriously hurt....
So my last thought on this is that THE DRIVER WAS TOTALLY AT FAULT and even with my suggestions above and a bit more pace to maybe go for primary, that utter pr1ck of a driver would probably have still caused some carnage.... (Hopefully that won't be seen as victim blaming?)
Anyway - lessons learned even for an old dog like me on several levels and points in this thread alone
OP
OP
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
Where it's due I think it's fine to say that the cyclist could have done better.
In this case could she have done much more? I don't know, it's a tough one. Would taking a primary position have stopped him from overtaking? debatable.
Even I, traveling at 25mph, didn't bother with taking the lane.
In this case could she have done much more? I don't know, it's a tough one. Would taking a primary position have stopped him from overtaking? debatable.
Even I, traveling at 25mph, didn't bother with taking the lane.
MrHappyCyclist
Riding the Devil's HIghway
- Location
- Bolton, England
I think I would be extremely nervous of going straight ahead there without taking the lane well in advance, although the traffic does appear to be moving quite fast which could make it difficult.
OP
OP
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
Depends on the traffic levels as to what is best to do. Knowing the road and how it flows here is pretty key.
Gaz, I know that junction well having lived in Wandsworth Common some years ago and driving it every day for a while. It has been 'interesting' to see the impact of the cycle lanes and the motorists approach to them when I do still venture down there. The junction is a 'mare. That should make us all more careful.
Whilst always easy in hindsight - and no guarantee any of us would actually do it if on our daily commute, I would like to think that the only safe technique for her, all things being considered, would have been a big Life Saver and get eye contact with a car BEHIND (as in before alongside) whilst making her own progress and intention to continue straight on clear.
One would hope that in an ideal world, said driver would acknowledge or wave her onwards and effectively chaperone her through the junction. May sound complicated or convoluted but the video should make my idea/intention clear? Hopefully...
Once again, no guarantee that any of us would actually do this in a real world situation and whilst not being 'wise after the event', it is what I would like to think that I would do in her shoes.
And before anyone shouts - SHE DOESNT HAVE TO SIGNAL AS SHE IS CONTINUING STRAIGHT ON - I refer to my post above; it really doesn't matter who was in the right in a collision with a large van and a cycle
Better to have not had the incident if at all possible.......(I approach right turns at roundabouts - especially two lane ones- in a similar fashion and try and get acknowledgement from nearby cars before taking my 'rightful' road position)
Origamist
Legendary Member
You can’t tell from the video if the cyclist did or did not perform a life-saver (although at around 33//4 secs, I think she might, given the initial veer left before the lorry is alongside). What’s more, trying to make eye contact and hopefully acquire some "I'm not going to run you over" non-verbal negotiation cues over your shoulder with a HGV driver (elevated in his cab) bearing down on you in his lorry, at speed, (and importantly, failing to signal his intentions to turn left) with a traffic island on your left, is far, far easier to type than it is to actually do. What’s more, making a gesture to signal straight on (which is open to interpretation in itself) removes one hand from the bars which comprises both steering and braking ability at what could be a critical juncture – particularly with the considerable speed differential between the two vehicles.
I think the cyclist did v well to avoid a more serious incident.
I think the cyclist did v well to avoid a more serious incident.
OP
OP
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
Have you looked at my blog post? I ask because there are details in there about what the driver said in court, specifically how he was distracted by another vehicle overtaking him. Whilst he also said that he thought she was following the same route as him, is an indication about your intended direction needed? Perhaps if the driver is alongside you (which in this case would have been too late) but as Origamist said, an indication of such type could be confusing more than helpful.Gaz, I know that junction well having lived in Wandsworth Common some years ago and driving it every day for a while. It has been 'interesting' to see the impact of the cycle lanes and the motorists approach to them when I do still venture down there. The junction is a 'mare. That should make us all more careful.
Whilst always easy in hindsight - and no guarantee any of us would actually do it if on our daily commute, I would like to think that the only safe technique for her, all things being considered, would have been a big Life Saver and get eye contact with a car BEHIND (as in before alongside) whilst making her own progress and intention to continue straight on clear.
One would hope that in an ideal world, said driver would acknowledge or wave her onwards and effectively chaperone her through the junction. May sound complicated or convoluted but the video should make my idea/intention clear? Hopefully...
Once again, no guarantee that any of us would actually do this in a real world situation and whilst not being 'wise after the event', it is what I would like to think that I would do in her shoes.
And before anyone shouts - SHE DOESNT HAVE TO SIGNAL AS SHE IS CONTINUING STRAIGHT ON - I refer to my post above; it really doesn't matter who was in the right in a collision with a large van and a cycle
(I approach right turns at roundabouts - especially two lane ones- in a similar fashion and try and get acknowledgement from nearby cars before taking my 'rightful' road position)
As I said previously, I'm all for learning from every situation possible but I think in this case that we can't expect the average cyclists to do more than she did, which is change lanes safely keep a clear and steady course and be aware of what's around you. It's a b* of a junction which can be approached in many different ways, all with their downsides and from my experience of using this junction and watching others use it, most use it in the way she did.
