Like a Brompton but not like a Brompton

[Origamist]

Again a bike to ride before buying. The Birdy seems to split riders in two categories: Either you love it or you hate it as it rides a bit special. The suspension works great in my opinion but the steering feels a bit strange and is in a strange way very nervous, even compared to a Brompton. Not necessarily bad but different. So it is really a matter of taste.
Furthermore one should be aware that the Birdy is not only an expensive bike but also requires a hefty amount of expensive maintenance through regular exchange of expensive parts like the stem or the front swing arm. I would definitively recommend checking the maintenance section of the manual before buying to be aware of the follow-up cost. Unfortunately - different from many other bikes - this is not just theory: Breaks of parts on Birdys do not happen every day but do get reported more or less regularly, sometimes even within the maintenance interval for those parts, and also parts that are not subject of regular exchange like the rear swing arm. As these breakages may lead to very bad crashs to me this is a serious issue even if it only happens not on every bike but only occasionally. What makes things worse is that the parts are relatively expensive and difficult to get hold of: Riese and Müller, the makers, have a reputation for really bad customer support and even the regular delivery of parts through a dealer (which is sometimes hard to find) sometimes turns out to be an issue. The more for older bikes - they seem not to care for them any more as soon as they released a newer version (the Birdy exists since the mid nineties and got apart from changes on it during the first couple of years bigger overhauls in about 2005 and 2015).
The lower end models, though still expensive, suffer from some cheapish parts. Not as bad as on the Moulton TSR but the choice of components does not fit the price of the bike. Intresting models with better components like the Birdy speed are even more expensive.

Initially, before buying a Brompton, I was very interested in a Bridy and those maintenance topics as well as the perceived attitude of the manufacturer drew me away from it. Today I am happy about my change in choice and in the meantime I know a couple of Birdy owners that in general like the bike but would never buy one again due to the longterm cost, the breakages and quality issues they perceived even w/o misuse and the attitude of the manufacturer towards customers and their support requests. However: I've never dealt with R/M personally apart from visiting their booth on trade shows, so the judgement about their customer support is second hand opinion. It is however pretty consistent and it also fits to my perception of the R/M people on the booth during these trade shows.

How people judge ride characteristics is certainly subjective, and it's true that the Birdy handles differently to a Brompton (although the Brompton handles differently again with a laden front bag), but a Birdy, with its dual suspension and options for Big Apple tyres certainly provides a more comfortable/plush ride. When I would let people ride a Brompton and Birdy back-to-back, most people preferred the Birdy. Anyway, anecdata...

I'd broadly agree about the maintenance costs of the Birdy compared to a Brompton. The only offset is that the disc brakes on the mid-range and above Birdy mean you don't have to replace rims/wheels so regularly and that helps even out the costs.

The only issue I had with Birdy customer support was that they were slow to respond. Parts sometimes had to be ordered so that certainly needs to be factored into the repair and maintenance regime. Also I'm not aware of a Birdy dealership in Cheshire and that needs to be considered. I work in London one day a week, so it was never an issue for me as I'd get things sorted at Simpson's or Bikefix.

In terms of the quality of parts and components, I'd broadly disagree, Brompton is second best here, even compared to a lower-end Birdy, but not by much. Brompton have improved things slowly and incrementally over the the years, but at best, I'd describe the parts as 'fitfully functional'. My personal bugbear is the two speed pusher/derailleur. Thankfully, there are a lot of aftermarket options now available for a Brompton, and it's certainly a sturdy little bike, but the sheer volume of higher quality and more durable replacement parts tells you a lot about the stock parts. All that said, many of the aftermarket options are really about weight saving and bling on the Brompton.

The Brompton is the better of the two in terms of carrying stuff.

As far as frame failures go, I've had one each on a Birdy and Brompton, both in the seat tube collar area. However, I'd choose a steel framed Brompton in terms of durability as it also resists dints and dents better than the Birdy, as it's an inch thick!

IMO, the Birdy has better gearing options, including a Rohloff off-the-peg version, and better options for adjusting stem height, but all things considered, if the OP is set on a folding bike for their commute, I'd go with the Brompton as it's the easier choice, all things considered. That said, I'm not sure why a folding bike or a mini-velo is his/her preferred option for a short commute along mainly country lanes, without a multi-modal aspect - each to their own though.

 

[macp]

Good comments one and all and thanks again origamist for the kind offer of a test ride which I will certainly take you up on should I definitely decide Brompton. So why a folder when I dont actually need one. Well initially I was just looking for a bike which was different & fun that I could chuck around as it were. And then I got turned on by the smaller wheel bikes which all happen to be folders for obvious reasons. And since then I can see benefits to having a folder although as I say its not a necessity. In my opinion im struggling to find anything half as quirky or interesting in the sub 2k bracket that does not have 16 or 20" wheels.

On the subject of handling and the Brompton I was reading a heated debate on another forum where a couple of posters were saying the B was terrible to the point of being dangerous.

 

[Gunk]

I was reading a heated debate on another forum where a couple of posters were saying the B was terrible to the point of being dangerous.

Those comments are usually made by people who have never ridden one, absolute nonsense!

 

[Eziemnaik]

Has anybody ridden one of those?
Not a small folder!!!
https://changebike.co.uk/

 

[macp]

Those comments are usually made by people who have never ridden one, absolute nonsense!

I think at least one of them was a previous owner who said he didnt dare take his hands off the bars to signal so sold it. Another said it felt like it was going to pitch him into the ditch at the side of the road. Not ridden one myself but cant see how they can be that bad although every test you read refers to them being 'twitchy'.

Edit:
This guy went on to say if you cant ride a bike no handed then there is something wrong. I guess thats all about confidence though isnt it ?

 

[roley poley]

I dont find them" twitchy" and mine is with a short wheelbase 102cm now they are 105cm my genesis day one 20 is "responsive" and I have to be awake on both when the road surface degrades. I can ride the large wheel bike without holding the handlebars but have no desire to even try this on a small wheel.The lack of a top tube to rest the inner thigh on when turning or freewheeling can feel unexpected and I feel put a few off when riding one for the first time

 

[Gunk]

They are very difficult to ride with no hands, but doesn’t make them dangerous, you just have to adapt to the slightly quirky handling characteristics.

Like everyone else I know who owns one, I find mine really easy to ride, I’ve never had a situation where I have not had complete confidence in the bike.

 

[berlinonaut]

every test you read refers to them being 'twitchy'.

At first they seem twitchy, after some time you'd rather say agile. It is a question of getting used to it - then the disadvantage suddenly turns into an advantage.

This guy went on to say if you cant ride a bike no handed then there is something wrong. I guess thats all about confidence though isnt it ?

It is possible but very few people are able to do it. I am not, despite having no problem at all here with regular bikes. The Birdy cannot be ridden no handed at all btw..

 

[berlinonaut]

In terms of the quality of parts and components, I'd broadly disagree, Brompton is second best here, even compared to a lower-end Birdy, but not by much. Brompton have improved things slowly and incrementally over the the years, but at best, I'd describe the parts as 'fitfully functional'.

That's one of the strange things about the Brompton: There's not a single component on it that would shine out in terms of extraordinaire quality or brand or such - it is all pretty average. But the stuff does it's job flawlessly, simply works and lasts as well. And the components are relatively light as well - overall a good compromise in my eyes though nothing to pose around with to impress other people.

The Birdy has at some places higher ranked components (the supernova lights i.e.) - on the other hand: over here in Germany the cheapest Birdy model, the City with an 8-speed Shimano Nexus costs 2.400€. If you fit it out with a rack (to make it rollable) and a pump you end up at 2.600€ and a weight of ~13kg (true or not).
The most comparable Brompton would probably be the M6RD - 6-speed with rack and dynamolights, even using the same dynamo hub. You end up with 1800€ and a specified weight of 12,5 kg. So the Brompton is 800€ cheaper. A lot of money to spend for upgrades... You can even get closer to the Nexus Birdy if you opt for the single speed version of the same Brompton (1512€ list price) and let i.e. Juliane Neuss implement a Nexus 8-speed hub for I think about 400€. So you'll end up with 1900€ (or 700€ less) for a more or less similar speced bike with a worse front light and rim brakes instead of disk brakes. An typically Bromptons are recognizably more expensive in Germany than in the uk, so in the uk the price difference may even be higher.

My personal bugbear is the two speed pusher/derailleur. Thankfully, there are a lot of aftermarket options now available for a Brompton, and it's certainly a sturdy little bike, but the sheer volume of higher quality and more durable replacement parts tells you a lot about the stock parts. All that said, many of the aftermarket options are really about weight saving and bling on the Brompton.

Never had issues with the Brompton derailleur and neither with other stock parts apart from a broken blade once. In way more over ten years of using Bromptons, mostly every day. Some cheap parts go to the bin directly like the handlebar grips or the cheapish Kenda tubes, but that's about it.
The Birdy has been the start of R/M as a company but for years now it has degraded to play a tiny side role - they are focussing on cargo bikes and expensive electric bikes, so not much development on the Birdy and nothing to be expected in the future. In opposite: They have trimmed down the portfolio, gotten rid of the cheaper "world birdy" and only three variants of the normal one left in stock with the former Birdy speed being degraded to Birdy touring and the former touring version being vanished from the product palette. I'd think it is fair to assume they don't sell many and I barely see one on the streets as well (in total opposite to Bromptons).
So for third party companies the Birdy is not a very attractive item while the Brompton is. It has become a bit of a fashion item over the last years and many of the tuning parts are dedicated more to add bling than quality if you ask me. There is a huge and growing market for this stuff and for some years now it is no longer limited to Asia. Brompton themselves have been busy scaling up production and sales and getting a foot in the door of electric bikes with the Brompton electric but they would be fools if they would not jump onto that train sooner or later, the more as they have created it themselves with the recent positioning of the brand. But they would have to care for quality - many of the aftermarket parts are limited in usability or quality and this would be a dangerous route for Brompton. Still I think the offerings are less the result from the Brompton being bad quality but from the desire of people for individualization and the willingness to spend serious money for this.

As far as frame failures go, I've had one each on a Birdy and Brompton, both in the seat tube collar area. However, I'd choose a steel framed Brompton in terms of durability as it also resists dints and dents better than the Birdy, as it's an inch thick!

As a side note: When looking at offers of used Bromptons in the uk they often seem to be very punished and neglected bikes. I've never seen Bromptons in such a bad state other than in the uk. Maybe we Germans are more anal regarding proper maintenance. However: A lot of the issues (and even more frame issues) with the Brompton I've only heard of in British forums and I wonder why. I do not think it is only the sheer amount of Bromptons that is higher in the uk and I do not think that the Brits ride so much more - it must be something else. Since invention of the MK4 in 2004 I've barely heard of any frame issue on a Brompton in Germany apart from the old (and solved) problem of rear frames rusting through. When there were other issues (like i.e. on the seat tube) - rarely enough - they clearly were a result of neglected maintenance (in this case ignoring a worn seat post sleeve for a very long time). In the UK on the other hand there seem to be a considerable amount of issues and I do hesitate to believe that it's just the weather causing it.

IMO, the Birdy has better gearing options, including a Rohloff off-the-peg version, and better options for adjusting stem height, but all things considered, if the OP is set on a folding bike for their commute, I'd go with the Brompton as it's the easier choice, all things considered. That said, I'm not sure why a folding bike or a mini-velo is his/her preferred option for a short commute along mainly country lanes, without a multi-modal aspect - each to their own though.

A Rohloff Birdy with a carrier with rolls costs a whopping 3.900€ over here. For that amount of money I'assume you would be able to build a Rohloff Brompton, too, including disk brakes, by using parts of Ben Cooper or Vostok on a bare frame.
Still, clearly the Birdy is more comfy to ride and easier in terms of adjustablity, that's for sure.

 

[Gunk]

At first they seem twitchy, after some time you'd rather say agile. It is a question of getting used to it - then the disadvantage suddenly turns into an advantage.


It is possible but very few people are able to do it. I am not, despite having no problem at all here with regular bikes. The Birdy cannot be ridden no handed at all btw..

I’ve just thought about this conversation this afternoon whilst riding to our local shops. My Brompton is completely stable with one hand off the bars and the other hand very lightly on the bars. Perhaps it is just a case of getting used to it, it I really don’t find it any more difficult to ride than any of my other bikes.

 

[macp]

So I contacted Brompton and asked for the currently delivery time from production and was quoted 10-12 weeks. I shouldnt be surprised but I am and I am not. On one hand orders are probably up due to the lockdown and folks are cycling more. But then money is tight at the moment so wouldnt you buy something cheaper. Or lastly it could be because they have fewer staff. So in conclusion if I was getting one I would be looking for something from stock sadly.

 

[Smudge]

So I contacted Brompton and asked for the currently delivery time from production and was quoted 10-12 weeks. I shouldnt be surprised but I am and I am not. On one hand orders are probably up due to the lockdown and folks are cycling more. But then money is tight at the moment so wouldnt you buy something cheaper. Or lastly it could be because they have fewer staff. So in conclusion if I was getting one I would be looking for something from stock sadly.

There must be loads of bike shops and online dealers that have Bromptons in stock.

 

[berlinonaut]

I’ve just thought about this conversation this afternoon whilst riding to our local shops. My Brompton is completely stable with one hand off the bars and the other hand very lightly on the bars. Perhaps it is just a case of getting used to it, it I really don’t find it any more difficult to ride than any of my other bikes.

I have no issues as well but many first timers do in the beginning. It also depends from the model. My first Brompton was a 2008 S-model and it had a steering nervous as hell. Over time Iearned to deal with it but also that Brompton fittet a slightly wider bar from 2009 on. What shall I say: They did it for a reason. With the newer bars fitted the bike rode like a dream and I've heard from a lot of other folks that they had similar issues with the initial smaller S-bar as well.

 

[macp]

There must be loads of bike shops and online dealers that have Bromptons in stock.

I agree just would have been nice to spec it just how I wanted it but I can either wait or ask the dealer to fit the accessories I want. I suppose

 

[macp]

I have no issues as well but many first timers do in the beginning. It also depends from the model. My first Brompton was a 2008 S-model and it had a steering nervous as hell. Over time Iearned to deal with it but also that Brompton fittet a slightly wider bar from 2009 on. What shall I say: They did it for a reason. With the newer bars fitted the bike rode like a dream and I've heard from a lot of other folks that they had similar issues with the initial smaller S-bar as well.

Interesting fact I was not aware of.