BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
That's not what I understood you to say originally. What I thought was that you said cyclists are too hard to see, which is clearly b0ll0x.
London cyclist may have hit door
- Thread starter Deb13b
- Start date
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Agreed. The 'danger' to the driver could be increased if the police were simply to enforce the law:
From Section 105 of the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986:
"No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person."
Scruffmonster
Über Member
- Location
- London/Kent
Fair play.
I'm sure that most have seen (something like) this... but as the best example of the point I was making.
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Actually, I have shown it to be be incorrect & you've had to correct your self & say that people aren't seeing but assuming.
Most people can't even tell you if a car is there or not after a quick glance when actually asked. VERY scary stuff.
Scruffmonster
Über Member
- Location
- London/Kent
I haven't corrected myself. I clarified for anyone that found it ambiguously written.
If you believe that's what happened, cool.
Boris Bajic
Guest
This is a dreadful tale. I feel for the loved ones of the victim and despise the mindless and pointless fashion for darkening glass.
Nonetheless, as a motorist, cyclist and (at one time) motorcyclist of many years' experience and the victim more than once of what is these days called a SMIDSY, I find this to be the case:
Occasionally, road users will fail to spot cyclists or motorcyclists. I have failed to spot both - although I have yet to wallop one.
I have seen drivers who appeared to look straight at me and then pulled out anyway. I am a big fan of eye contact, so these stick in my mind.
I drive far more miles than I cycle and I spend far longer in a car than on a bicycle.
Yet other road users fail to see me far more frequently on a bicycle than when I'm in a car.
Similarly, I have been surprised by the 'sudden appearence' of a bicycle or motorcycle far more times than I have by the same situation with a car.
To my mind, whether one is looking carefully or not, bicycles and motorcycles are more likely to go unseen for longer by other road users during the critical stages of (and leading up to) a traffic manoeuvre.
One can develop a complex about this and blame it on mindless, physically isolated Motons not engaging fully with their environment or simply having a vindictive dislike of cyclists.... But that does not fit my experience.
I find it harder to locate an 8mm nut dropped on the floor than a QR skewer. One is larger.
I cycle; my children cycle. I do not have a side in the debate. Sometimes bicycles are jolly hard to spot.
Nonetheless, as a motorist, cyclist and (at one time) motorcyclist of many years' experience and the victim more than once of what is these days called a SMIDSY, I find this to be the case:
Occasionally, road users will fail to spot cyclists or motorcyclists. I have failed to spot both - although I have yet to wallop one.
I have seen drivers who appeared to look straight at me and then pulled out anyway. I am a big fan of eye contact, so these stick in my mind.
I drive far more miles than I cycle and I spend far longer in a car than on a bicycle.
Yet other road users fail to see me far more frequently on a bicycle than when I'm in a car.
Similarly, I have been surprised by the 'sudden appearence' of a bicycle or motorcycle far more times than I have by the same situation with a car.
To my mind, whether one is looking carefully or not, bicycles and motorcycles are more likely to go unseen for longer by other road users during the critical stages of (and leading up to) a traffic manoeuvre.
One can develop a complex about this and blame it on mindless, physically isolated Motons not engaging fully with their environment or simply having a vindictive dislike of cyclists.... But that does not fit my experience.
I find it harder to locate an 8mm nut dropped on the floor than a QR skewer. One is larger.
I cycle; my children cycle. I do not have a side in the debate. Sometimes bicycles are jolly hard to spot.
Scruffmonster
Über Member
- Location
- London/Kent
Crickey, if you need anything more categoric than what Boris has written I fear for you.
Boris Bajic
Guest
Umm... In a word, no.
But a word is never enough for me. I fear that when you say I'm glossing over something there may be an alternative reading of "You wrote something I don't agree with". This might happen in life; it can be galling but doesn't signify the end of all that we hold dear. It's just a little sand in the gears.
You may be right. I may be wrong.
But unless you and a couple of major investment banks have made a conclusive corporate raid on the holdings of Truth & Enlightenment plc, then I fear we may just be left disagreeing respectfully with one another.
The situation as I described it is one that I see daily. It may be entirely wrong, but I'm pretty sure it will be the same tomorrow and the next day.
However, I am wrong about so many things that one more will barely draw blood. From the tone of your post I get the impression that you are never wrong. I envy that.
tonyhalsall
Regular
The human eye-brain messaging system is far better at noticing relative movement than it is at observing seemingly stationary images getting larger. The sheer size of almost any motor vehicle that is moving relative to you will immediately register as motion. Take a car driver that is waiting at a give way and who has pulled right up to the lines. A kerb hugging cyclist will appear as a stationary object against the landscape until the very last moments because it appears to be moving directly towards the viewer and without any relative movement - ie just getting bigger as opposed to being detached from the background. The car driver is even less likely to see the cyclist if the eye-brain messaging system is processing lots of other moving traffic because it can't perceive the threat from something that just appears to be part of the background.
The greatest threat to you on a bicycle or motorcycle is to be approaching a driver at a very narrow angle particularly if there is a great deal of other traffic around but even on an empty road the brain just does not pick up an object getting bigger like it does movement. Think about it yourself... We are all amazed that drivers don't see cyclist / motorcyclists but how often in daily life do you see something "out of the corner of your eye." It is relative movement that your peripheral vision catches and how you can easily notice even tiny moving objects.
What can be learned from this?...... As a two wheeled user be particularly alert when approaching a vehicle "head on" - particularly small cars with very little bonnet space that are right up against give way / stop signs and you are kerb hugging. If you can, move out to a more central road position when the driver is looking your way so that you detach yourself from the scenery. If you can't do that - just ride defensively. On a motorcycle I always perform a little "s" manoevre when I approach junctions where vehicles are waiting to pull out or if a car is waiting to turn right from the opposite lane.
It is easy to blame drivers for looking and not seeing and without doubt, education plays a big part in observation skills because you have to be looking for the two wheeled user. Notwithstanding that, human performance considerations relating to eye-brain messaging is something that we two wheel users can be aware of and adapt our riding styles accordingly. No point in being in the right and dead/injured so until drivers become more educated do your best to detach yourself from the background scenery when approaching head on cars waiting to turn right across you or cars waiting to pull out.
Happy cycling.
The greatest threat to you on a bicycle or motorcycle is to be approaching a driver at a very narrow angle particularly if there is a great deal of other traffic around but even on an empty road the brain just does not pick up an object getting bigger like it does movement. Think about it yourself... We are all amazed that drivers don't see cyclist / motorcyclists but how often in daily life do you see something "out of the corner of your eye." It is relative movement that your peripheral vision catches and how you can easily notice even tiny moving objects.
What can be learned from this?...... As a two wheeled user be particularly alert when approaching a vehicle "head on" - particularly small cars with very little bonnet space that are right up against give way / stop signs and you are kerb hugging. If you can, move out to a more central road position when the driver is looking your way so that you detach yourself from the scenery. If you can't do that - just ride defensively. On a motorcycle I always perform a little "s" manoevre when I approach junctions where vehicles are waiting to pull out or if a car is waiting to turn right from the opposite lane.
It is easy to blame drivers for looking and not seeing and without doubt, education plays a big part in observation skills because you have to be looking for the two wheeled user. Notwithstanding that, human performance considerations relating to eye-brain messaging is something that we two wheel users can be aware of and adapt our riding styles accordingly. No point in being in the right and dead/injured so until drivers become more educated do your best to detach yourself from the background scenery when approaching head on cars waiting to turn right across you or cars waiting to pull out.
Happy cycling.
SportMonkey
Guest
What I find interesting is that my wife has a tiny car, a Kia Picanto. It often, I'll say optimistically, goes unnoticed compared to larger vehicles. There's also the black car insurance issue, whereby black cars are hit more: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...4PQ3-h&sig=AHIEtbR_PRTEAF5ZqQUkMcpVD2crw3qk-A
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
Those RAF jet jockeys he teaches must be brighter than me because I couldn't understand the report.
marafi
Rolling down the hills with the bike.
- Location
- univeristy is my home for now. lol
How terrible and very unfortunately. More needs to be done in the safety of CYCLISTS!
paulw1969
Ridley rider
- Location
- Long Eaton, Notts.
RIP
