Lorry blind spots; a get out of jail free card?

[bpsmith]

This is the sort of blame split people asses.s Whether or not it is accurate is a different matter.

Yeah.

Interesting. I found this interesting, when looking myself:

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/roa...lame_killed_seriously_injured_motorists-27340

 

[MarkF]

It's not a commuter or shopper, but a commercial driver, probably under time-pressure, good luck with expecting such people to check, every time, a cyclist enters a blind spot. I use 7.5t drivers every day, they are stressesd out, borderline frenzied, such is the pressure they are under. Some need to get real.

 

[bpsmith]

Boris Johnson's claim that he could never back up. He is lowlife scum.

This was the investigation after Boris made that claim I believe. But still questionable if meant to cover what he had already said.

 

[MarkF]

I think you have just explained better than I ever could why we need to shift the burden of responsibility to those who bring the greater degree of danger.

Really? I thought it was injecting a dose of realism.

 

[Wobblers]

Really? I thought it was injecting a dose of realism.

What you're saying is that those commercial drivers are under such pressure that they cannot operate their vehicles in a safe manner. In any other industry, that would result in the HSE prosecuting their employers.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

good luck with expecting such people to check, every time, a cyclist enters a blind spot.

I shouldn't have to rely on luck when there are large lorries moving around me on my commute.

GC

 

[BrevetRider]

http://mccraw.co.uk/sorry-mate-i-cant-see-blind-spot/

Just to reiterate about this informative article, where are the blind spots?

 

[MarkF]

What you're saying is that those commercial drivers are under such pressure that they cannot operate their vehicles in a safe manner..

Yes, that appears to be the case to me, they are under intolerable pressure, and therefore, make errors.

In any other industry, that would result in the HSE prosecuting their employers

Reality. They will give their drivers strict safety conditions that they must comply with. Then, introduce, through multi-tiered, bonus led, management structures, conditions that make it very difficult for the drivers to comply, and at the same time, attain their schedule targets (money). The 7.5t drivers that visit me (from several national couriers) change monthly, they all want out, they can have 45-55 job targets (collection and deliveries) per day. How could anybody do that safely?

 

[glenn forger]

They will give their drivers strict safety conditions that they must comply with.

In case anyone offers the appalling excuse that not every driver has the full complement of “basic safety mirrors” fitted, they’re not called “basic safety mirrors” for nothing you know. 66% of urban deaths involve a heavy goods vehicle remember – no driver or company can claim ignorance when it comes to their priorities towards public safety.

The police, CPS/fiscal and judiciary would never accept that an absence of “basic safety mirrors” leading to a preventable collision by the driver was anything other than a serious aggravating factor against a backdrop of ongoing deaths in these situations… right?

They’d never let a killer driver off the hook because his sub-legal complement of mirrors is seen as amitigating factor… right?

 

[Scoosh]

MOD NOTE:
We're entering slightly different territory here. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it might require the movement of this thread to SC&P or Campaigning & PP.

 

[MarkF]

If it can't be done safely, should it be done at all?

Well it needs to be done Adrian, but with drivers having realistically achievable targets, safe targets. The national 7.5t courier business is all about price, after all, nothing else separates the companies and they badger me every week with promises of rock bottom prices with top quality service. I have never seen such stressed out and unhappy employees as courier drivers (in charge of 7.5t vehicles), it is not right, but nor is focusing only on the drivers either

 

[MarkF]

And safe driving practices which, to go back to the beginning of this thread, was what was missing here.

But safe driving practices cannot be followed whilst under extreme time/money pressure, not IMO anyway. How can 45-55 jobs (deliveries and collections) be done in an 8 hour shift, in office hours (=busy roads) whilst always following safe driving practices? I certainly could not do it.

 

[MarkF]

Then it is time for us to evaluate our values as a society.

I would agree.

 

[Wobblers]

But safe driving practices cannot be followed whilst under extreme time/money pressure, not IMO anyway. How can 45-55 jobs (deliveries and collections) be done in an 8 hour shift, in office hours (=busy roads) whilst always following safe driving practices? I certainly could not do it.

I would tend to agree with you. Were I to mix the wrong chemicals, and lay waste to half of Port Sunlight, the ensuing investigation would look to see if I had been adequately trained, if the safety procedures were correct, and had been followed, how important safety was to management, or was there management pressure to circumvent good safety practices in order to prioritise business needs. Were they found wanting, my employers would be prosecuted. It is somewhat ironic that when I send samples over to Liverpool University, there is a depressingly long list of stringent conditions to be complied with (despite the fact that you'll find these chemicals in toothpaste!)... while the couriers who deliver it have no requirement for doing risk assessments or face any safety inspections to ensure safe working practices - despite the overwhelming majority of the risk being on their side.

Perhaps that's less "ironic" and more "scandalous".

I do wonder if the difference is down to the way things are investigated. An industrial accident will be investigated thoroughly to find out the reasons why it happened, and what can be learned to prevent it happening again - at least where there are fatalities. A road accident - or collision, perhaps I should say - will be investigated by the police with the sole purpose of seeing if there is a case for prosecution. It is unlikely that the management factors you detail will be examined closely, if at all. It does not help that the HSE will not investigate such RTCs, even though they are to all intents and purposes industrial accidents. That needs to change.

 

[MarkF]

An ad in the paper just reminded me of this thread.............60 parcels is nearly 9 an hour, without breaks and on 100% clear roads, obviously it's impossible in normal conditions to do this safely (IMO) and these companies should be taken to task

The role will involve working for a national, warehouse & distribution specialist transporting goods to various locations throughout the UK.
Requirements:

• Clean Licence or no more than 6 points & no previous bans
• Must have good geographical knowledge of Yorkshire & surrounding areas
• Completing paper work with 100% accurate data is essential
• Route Planning in specific post coded area's preferred but not essential
• Experience using parcel tracking devices or PDA’s preferred
• Must have the ability to navigate & plan routes using maps
• Satellite navigation device & maps for back-up required

This is a rare & exciting opportunity () for the right candidate, working for a well known brand in the UK.
We are looking for enthusiastic & strong minded individuals who are looking to start a career in the parcel delivery network.

You will be expected to complete on an average day around 50-70 parcels & during peak times in the late Autumn months 70-100 parcels.

• 50+ drops/collections daily on a standard 8 hour day.

Pay Rates:
Monday-Saturday (£6.50-£7.50 per hour)