Dusty Bin
Guest
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Low Level races?
- Thread starter Thompson
- Start date
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Monsieur Remings
Guru
- Location
- Yatton UK
I'm fine with the risks - I'm not the one complaining about them
I think you're misquoting me again. I never said don't bother. The skills are good to have. What I did say however (which is the bit you missed, I think) is that none of that will guarantee you a safe race.
As for the link - there's nothing new in there.
Okay, it's not my intention to argue with you or anyone else but I don't think anyone who does, or has advocated doing some club/group riding first has suggested that this will 'guarantee' (your choice of word) a safe race either?
As you've said yourself, nothing is 100% safe when it comes to racing.
puberty is going to rock your world
Also saying that an experienced rider is as much of a risk as a first timer is dumb. Crashes happen due to unpreventable events, and crashes happen because of preventable events. Experience and knowledge/training greatly reduce the likelihood of preventable mistakes occurring. By logic, or even simple mathematics for those among us who suffer from lack of the former, this means that experience and knowledge both reduce the chance of crashing. To argue otherwise is completely counterintuitive to progress in the road race scene
Dusty Bin
Guest
Tell that to the fellas who crashed in my local E/1/2 crit last week (or it might have been the week before, can't remember). They weren't brought down by an inexperienced chopper.
Take that logic and apply it to something like F1 or Moto Gp - it doesn't work. All are experienced riders/drivers who have come up through the karting, FF, F3, or other national series - they still crash and they still bring each other down. Alternatively, just watch some cycle racing on TV - are the pros still crashing? They certainly are...
An experienced rider is just as likely to cause an accident as a first timer. Nothing dumb about that - and it is supported by more evidence than you are ever likely to need. Etiquette and common sense both go out the window on the last lap or the 1k sign, regardless of the category printed on your licence. Experience and knowledge both suggest that you shouldn't ride into oncoming traffic, but we have seen two deaths this year when experienced/competent riders did exactly that.
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Take your F1 and Moto Gp example, except this time yourself, everybody in this thread and myself are also joining in the F1 and Moto races alongside the pros (assuming there is a lack of motor racing expertise with the average person). Guess what will happen...more crashes. The logic applies perfectly.
Yes crashes still happen even with those at the top of the game, but we're talking about taking a step towards reducing the risk, not eliminating the impossible.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Dusty Bin
Guest
So you've just turned a practical hypothesis into pure fantasy, because that would obviously never happen. That's a bit like saying 'put me at the controls of a jumbo jet and I would probably crash it' - which is obviously true. Even in cycling, there are restrictions which prevent 4th cats racing with E/1/2s (with the odd exception like handicap events), so the comparison of placing complete novices with the sport's elite does not work.
Looks like we ain't gonna agree. The risk of accidents is not reduced - because even those with the most knowledge and experience are still capable of causing crashes.
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Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Dusty Bin.......... you are talking complete and utter trash, you seem to have no grasp of probability whatsoever! Additionally I suggest you look up the term straw-man if you don't already know what it means!
Dusty Bin
Guest
mate - it's not trash, it's a realistic opinion based on racing for over 20 years, as well as being a member of BC's regional competition and event safety commission, where this sort of stuff comes up all the time. Have you ever even ridden a road/circuit race?
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
No I haven't, I focus on Time Trials and Hill Climbs, however that is not relevant!
Probability applies here, and it says............ you are talking bunkum!
Dusty Bin
Guest
Of course it's relevant. You accuse me of 'talking trash' when you have absolutely no direct, real world experience of the topic yourself. Maybe you should stick to riding on your own in a straight line.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Dusty Bin
Guest
like I said - which bit do you disagree with?
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
The overall probability of a crash, lets say for simplicity is a function of unavoidable incidents and avoidable incidents. Assume unavoidable incidents constant but avoidable incidents to vary with regards level of experience/skill. With increased experience/skill (which can be gained through chaingangs and club rides etc, for example not falling off when someone touches you or leans on you, not overlapping wheels when avoidable, general stuff, nothing fancy etc), this value will decrease. Thus with an increase in experience/skill, avoidable incidents decrease, therefore the overall probability of a crash also decreases!
None of this proposes that avoidable incidents are eliminated, only that they are reduced. Thus reducing the overall probability of a crash.