Missing from radar screen - One Boeing 777

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OP
OP
Smurfy

Smurfy

Naturist Smurf
The transponder does this, it has a 30 day battery when power is lost, that's the reason for all the speculation.............why did it just stop?
Isn't there supposed to be another device that breaks free and floats if the aircraft sinks in the ocean, and sends out an automatic SOS signal with location data?
 

hoopdriver

Guru
Location
East Sussex
True. Although the first debris was located after 5 days
It was only two days before they found the first of the Air France wreckage.

What I don't understand is why there is no signals reported from any of the five black boxes on board or the EPIRB. They should certainly be pinging away and giving investigators some kind of clue.

And why are they searching in the Straits of Malacca?

This is bizarre
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
Well it's an Airbus 330 .... The only thing I'm worried about right now is who I'm sitting next to and whether I'll sleep ok ....
Could have 4 seats to stretch out on !!!!!

Don't let it worry you, I guarantee you will be fine, this only happens every few years, security goes sky high, planes get double checked, it will be a few years before we hear anything like this again.

Take a bomb on board with you to guarantee safe passage. The odds of there being two bombs on board are so long that you'll have to wait a century or two for it to happen.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
tumblr_l8z2bz99S31qzun0bo1_500.jpg
 

ASC1951

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
True. But there are 19m individual flights per year so the airline industry doesn't do too badly
In fact it does. Calculated as deaths per journey, air travel is more dangerous than every other form of transport except bicycles and motorbikes. [And motorbikes are ten times as dangerous as bicycles, which is no surprise.]
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
In fact it does. Calculated as deaths per journey, air travel is more dangerous than every other form of transport except bicycles and motorbikes. [And motorbikes are ten times as dangerous as bicycles, which is no surprise.]
I don't suppose you've got a link?

(I know this is the frivolous cafe, so it's an unreasonable question, but just for form's sake it would be good to know. Because my admittedly rusty memory is that per journey there's not a lot to pick between bikes, cars and walking, with trains some way in front.)
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
...and stats per trip are probably more useful for short-distance substitutible transport than for long-distance non-substitutible modes.
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
...and stats per trip are probably more useful for short-distance substitutible transport than for long-distance non-substitutible modes.
@srw, I always understood that per mile, air travel was way out in front as regards safety. "Per journey" seems a pretty bonkers "x axis". I think you might agree. I read an article that compared cyclist fatalities in European cities. As a "daily cyclist", I was told that I'm about 28 times more likely to die in London than in Amsterdam. Statistics are sliced and diced to suit agendas.

I feel pretty comfortable with being 28 times worse off.
 

F70100

Who, me ?
What could have happened to the flight?

Sudden depressurisation, caused for example by a window blowing out, a door coming open, or a failure of some part of the pressurisation system. All of these events have happened before. With a sudden depressurisation at 35000', the pilots would have around 7-10 seconds of useful consciousness to get their oxygen masks on, and, provided no catastrophic structural damage has occurred, they should be able to continue to fly the aircraft.

Unlawful interference. Flightdeck doors these days are armoured but their effectiveness depends on the crew using the correct protocols for opening the door for routine events (meal service & toilet visits).

Inadvertent thrust reverser deployment. e.g. as happened to Lauda Air 767 in 1991. A very bad thing to happen and virtually unrecoverable if it happens at cruising speed, as this aircraft would be after 2 hours of flight time.

Which systems report the aircrafts position routinely?

Voice radio. Needs a live pilot to activate it.

Ground based primary radar. Not sure if the area where the aircraft was supposed to be was covered by this system.

Secondary radar. A ground based system interrogates the aircrafts transponder which reports back position, altitude, heading, and speed data. Can be switched off on the flight deck but there are no normal circumstances when this would occur.

Some large airlines use a system called ACARS to communicate with their aircraft. Some ACARS systems (like on the B777) can be used to feed live telemetry back to the airline HQ so they can monitor engine data for maintenance purposes. I'm 99% certain that position data would be reported also. I'm not certain if Malaysian used this facility.

Which systems report position data in an emergency?

Both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and Flight Data Recorder have radios which start to transmit a signal certain parameters (sudden deceleration, loss of power supply, etc). All the search aircraft and ships will be listening out on the appropriate frequencies to pick up these signals and home in on their location.

Passenger aircraft are required to carry portable Emergency Locator Transmitters. If the aircraft crash lands in a remote location, the ELT may be activated automatically or manually and carried by survivors if they leave the crash location.


It seems to me that as well as something non normal happening to the aircraft, the ground based monitoring, both from ATC and the airline appears to be non normal also.

It doesn't look good for the passengers, crew and relatives.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
I don't suppose you've got a link?

(I know this is the frivolous cafe, so it's an unreasonable question, but just for form's sake it would be good to know. Because my admittedly rusty memory is that per journey there's not a lot to pick between bikes, cars and walking, with trains some way in front.)
Old, but gives some information http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/Risk/trasnsportpop.html
Table 1: Relative annual and lifetime transport risk in UK, based on relative traffic and kilometers travelled
Transport Deaths.jpg
 
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slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
Surely in this day and age reliance should not be placed on a Black Box to find out what happened? Why isn't flight information live streamed to servers?
Also, Google etc know our every move over the planets surface, why don't they tell us where they plane is?
That has puzzled me too. Telemetry has advanced hugely since the Black Boxes were introduced. Real-time data is beamed around the world by millions of organisations. Why on Earth does the aviation industry insist on dumping it in a shabby orange suitcase for analysis after "the event". The "suitcase" should be the back-up, not the prime source, surely?
 
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