More Advice / Experience Please

Like a few of us on here not getting any younger / fitter so thinking of going the E route.

The thing that intrigues / concerns / know nothing about is the "post 15.5 sensation"

So lets say we have happily pedalled along with assist to the bike assist limit, it is a nice flat road, bit of a tailwind and experience tells me on this section I have previously attained 20 odd mph.

What is the sensation when the assist just cuts out, is it like you have hit a slight incline or is it seamless?

Also if I then dip back under the assist limit does it automatically cut back in or do I have to re-tell it I want assist and switch it back on.

Apologies if these are basics but my E-bike knowledge is zero.

Thanks in advance.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Motors are tuned for torque not speed, so at 15mph the feel of the assistance will not be as great as at 10mph.

Some cut-offs feel as if the assist tapers making the feel of losing the motor more gradual.

There's also a tolerance of a an mph or two, so you might get one that doesn't stop assisting until 17mph or so.

Each of the systems and integration on the bike will feel a little bit different, but all will cut in and out automatically as you go above and below the assist limit.

The Bosch system, using speed, cadence, and torque sensors, is reckoned to be the smoothest and give the most cycle-like experience.

The 2020 Bosch motors are said to offer no extra resistance above cut-off, which could be an attraction if you think you will be riding a lot at that speed.

Not that the other systems should be ruled out.

The Ebikemotion hub motor as fitted to the Orbea ebike - and others - seems to be popular with roadies making the switch to ebikes.

It also depends on the user, some riders couldn't give a stuff provided the motor helps them up hills - I wouldn't criticise anyone for that.
 

BucksCS

Member
Location
Chilterns
Motors are tuned for torque not speed, so at 15mph the feel of the assistance will not be as great as at 10mph.

Some cut-offs feel as if the assist tapers making the feel of losing the motor more gradual.

There's also a tolerance of a an mph or two, so you might get one that doesn't stop assisting until 17mph or so.

Each of the systems and integration on the bike will feel a little bit different, but all will cut in and out automatically as you go above and below the assist limit.

The Bosch system, using speed, cadence, and torque sensors, is reckoned to be the smoothest and give the most cycle-like experience.

The 2020 Bosch motors are said to offer no extra resistance above cut-off, which could be an attraction if you think you will be riding a lot at that speed.

Not that the other systems should be ruled out.

The Ebikemotion hub motor as fitted to the Orbea ebike - and others - seems to be popular with roadies making the switch to ebikes.

It also depends on the user, some riders couldn't give a stuff provided the motor helps them up hills - I wouldn't criticise anyone for that.
Agreed - the Orbea Gain is indeed seamless, both when going above 15.5 mph and when dropping back down below it. Just ride it like a normal bike, use the gears as you normally would and you won't notice the power cutting in or out - your legs will feel like they did 10-20 years ago though .
 
Thank you both for your replies. Being an Orbea rider at present (Orca from about 2015) I was indeed looking at the Gain. After what seems like a lifetime of paying into a private pension (was never lucky enough to work for a company offering a company scheme) it matures next year and part of the lump sum is earmarked for an E-bike.
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
In very simple terms, riding a Crossfire e, as the assistance drops off at say 15.5....you do feel that sensation you describe, like youve hit a slight incline. Its not bad, just a noticeable sensation.
Assist feeds in automatically as you drop back below 15.5. Actaually on mine, as you drop to say 16 mph, you hear the electronics or motor kicking in but don't see any output going to the motor on your screen and you can't feel any assist. As the speed drops a little more, you then see and feel the output kicking in. Its not really important, just something i noticed.
 
In very simple terms, riding a Crossfire e, as the assistance drops off at say 15.5....you do feel that sensation you describe, like youve hit a slight incline. Its not bad, just a noticeable sensation.
Assist feeds in automatically as you drop back below 15.5. Actaually on mine, as you drop to say 16 mph, you hear the electronics or motor kicking in but don't see any output going to the motor on your screen and you can't feel any assist. As the speed drops a little more, you then see and feel the output kicking in. Its not really important, just something i noticed.
So moving on a bit further what sort of charging time does it take to recharge the battery and after a while is it a bit like a mobile phone whereby they appear to drain quicker and need charging more often?
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
So moving on a bit further what sort of charging time does it take to recharge the battery and after a while is it a bit like a mobile phone whereby they appear to drain quicker and need charging more often?
A few hours and yes.

The better quality batteries have a reasonable service life.

I have a Bosch battery that is seven years old, and which still holds a decent amount of charge.

Some of the cheaper Chinese batteries conk out after a couple of years.
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
Fade out of assist and back in is just that, gradual assistant.

Battery charging-slower the better, so expect a 2Amp charger around 4-6 hours. Another aspect is battery condition, if you get a charger that doesn't fully charge the battery and charges to 80/90% and dont discharge lower than 20% . The times the battery will recharge can be tripled in life. Once a month fully charge to let the battery management system level individual cells to optimize charge. Keep the battery stored around 80% and dont let frost get to the battery
 
It also depends on the user, some riders couldn't give a stuff provided the motor helps them up hills - I wouldn't criticise anyone for that.
I have a feeling that my knee problems might persuade me to get one soon so I can continue the rides I like in the Brecon Beacons.

How much weight does a typical motor add to a road bike, for the times I would not want to use the motor?
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
I have a feeling that my knee problems might persuade me to get one soon so I can continue the rides I like in the Brecon Beacons.

How much weight does a typical motor add to a road bike, for the times I would not want to use the motor?
motor around 3kg, battery 4kg
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
Ouch! I would need to lose a lot of weight to compensate for that,.or use the motor on all hills.

I'll leave it for a while.

Just use lowest setting to cancel the added weight.

Looks at this way, if you put on 7kg in weight could you develop an extra 250W? No you couldn't, but 7kg electric kit gives you 250W

If you go custom build, you could have upto 750W short term assist and constant 250-300W
 
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Pale Rider

Legendary Member
You need a limited amount of assistance to compensate for the extra weight.

You then need a bit more to make the experience easier than a regular push bike.

'Just using the motor for hills' doesn't really work practically because of the extra effort needed to progress on the flat.
 

Skanker

Well-Known Member
Location
Walton on Thames
I originally only used my electric just for inclines, then I progressively got lazier and used pedal assist for entire journey, now I have aged ungracefully and upgraded and use cruise control much more.
5 pedal assist settings on my controller but I now only use no.3 for flat and slight incline (approximately 400w), no.4 for steady incline (around 800w) and no.5 for really steep hills (full 1500w), it certainly makes riding at 30 mph completely effortless.
I do have overpowered wheels though at 48v 1500w on my Commencal Meta, and 120v 8000w for my recumbent trike.
They will both happily drag me down any flat surface and also up any incline I come across, but once the assistance cuts out they are absolute beasts to pedal with all the extra battery and wheel weight.
 
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