No Lights
- Thread starter Wolf04
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BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
You're probably right!! We all do risk compensation, especially those who deny it strongly.
BentMikey said:
It does - For every study that says it doesn't there's 4 that show it does. Issues with DRL on motorbikes are to do with glare and indicating. There's also studies from Scandinavia that show it has less impact because everyone has their lights on. But, it's really grasping at straws to say it has a negative effect.
From personal experience it has a positive effect. From personal experience as a car driver I know I will see a headlighted motorbike before I see one without.
I also know if someone doesn't see me, they don't see me, they probably wouldn't have seen me if I was driving a tank. No doubt they probably would have seen me if I was riding a unicycle wearing a clowns outfit and juggling as I rode: Ergo we should all ride unicycles in clown outfits and learn to juggle.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
You could be right, I certainly don't know the issue like I do the helmet debate.
madness crackle, sheer madness
I did some serious reading about helmets last week, sad as that is
and found the whole thing a fudge of maybe and perhaps, some of the leading sources were very poorly written and reasoned
I'm sticking with my on madcap idea that if I think there's a chance of cracking my skull on tarmac, a helmet will be a helpful thing to be wearing
in fifteen years I've done it once in a cycle helmet and three times in a motorcycle helmet, I reckon two possible cracked skulls and perhaps a broken jaw saved, works for me
does the DRL study for motorcycles carry over for flashing LED lights on cycles?
and I can only speak for myself regarding Risk Compensation, I get on the bloody thing and ride it, I don't mentally think about what I'm wearing and cycle differently
I think a good/experienced cyclist understands what they're doing and rides according to their assessment of what they can get away with (for want of a better phrase)
there might be something in it for inexperienced cyclists
and no I don't drive a Volvo, I'm plenty laissez faire but not switching on a light that's already fitted and ready to go and runs for a month on as good as free batteries that might prevent me having a painful and expensive accident?
pretty simple math to me
I did some serious reading about helmets last week, sad as that is
and found the whole thing a fudge of maybe and perhaps, some of the leading sources were very poorly written and reasoned
I'm sticking with my on madcap idea that if I think there's a chance of cracking my skull on tarmac, a helmet will be a helpful thing to be wearing
in fifteen years I've done it once in a cycle helmet and three times in a motorcycle helmet, I reckon two possible cracked skulls and perhaps a broken jaw saved, works for me
does the DRL study for motorcycles carry over for flashing LED lights on cycles?
and I can only speak for myself regarding Risk Compensation, I get on the bloody thing and ride it, I don't mentally think about what I'm wearing and cycle differently
I think a good/experienced cyclist understands what they're doing and rides according to their assessment of what they can get away with (for want of a better phrase)
there might be something in it for inexperienced cyclists
and no I don't drive a Volvo, I'm plenty laissez faire but not switching on a light that's already fitted and ready to go and runs for a month on as good as free batteries that might prevent me having a painful and expensive accident?
pretty simple math to me
Tynan I don't know. It's a while since i've had a motorbike now and I can't remember the trigger for reading some of them. Most were based on the US or Scandinavia. One of the gists I took was if you're different you stand out. Once different becomes normal, you have to find a different different, if that makes sense 
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Given the amount of energy a cycle helmet can absorb (75-100j), and the amount required to crack your skull (1000j), that seems quite an unlikely claim to make in general, assuming you were referring to the cycling crash. I couldn't comment on motorcycle helmets.
As for fudged studies and poor reasoning, how about that TRT report that claimed helmets would prevent 85% of head injuries? Seems reasonable, perhaps, until you find out that someone used the same methodology and data, and proved that helmets also protect against 75% of leg injuries. Or Crook and Feikh, where helmets are shown to protect a second person?
You may not like to admit to risk compensation, but you are guilty of it, just as the rest of us are.
Here's a bit more reading for you:
http://www.ctcyorkshirehumber.org.uk/campaigns/velo.htm
As for fudged studies and poor reasoning, how about that TRT report that claimed helmets would prevent 85% of head injuries? Seems reasonable, perhaps, until you find out that someone used the same methodology and data, and proved that helmets also protect against 75% of leg injuries. Or Crook and Feikh, where helmets are shown to protect a second person?
You may not like to admit to risk compensation, but you are guilty of it, just as the rest of us are.
Here's a bit more reading for you:
http://www.ctcyorkshirehumber.org.uk/campaigns/velo.htm
"Given the amount of energy a cycle helmet can absorb (75-100j), and the amount required to crack your skull (1000j), that seems quite an unlikely claim to make in general, assuming you were referring to the cycling crash. I couldn't comment on motorcycle helmets."
Hmmm, that's interesting. The reason I began wearing a helmet was because I crashed on a roundabout and fractured my skull. I'd always thought a helmet might have saved me that and the months of dizziness I suffered after.
Hmmm, that's interesting. The reason I began wearing a helmet was because I crashed on a roundabout and fractured my skull. I'd always thought a helmet might have saved me that and the months of dizziness I suffered after.
As I said BM, I'm relying on my own common sense and throwing my hands up in the air regarding the helmet research on either side, I get the unsavoury suspicion that there's agenda involved sometimes from the tone of some of them
And how on earth can you make that statement about Risk Compensation, other than my brain assessing risk continually, I'm sure I don't ride any more dangerously in hi viz and helmet, I've got a very healthy fear of having an accident and I'm not cutting any corners because I'm wearing it, if you wear something every single day, you're barely aware you're wearing it anyway seems to me
the cracked skull was 'possible', I'd somersaulted over a car doing over 25mph as I recall with the side of my head being the first thing to touch the road on the other side, maybe it wouldn't have cracked my skull, it's an inch thick from various knocks over my life, but I was still very glad to be wearing it
And how on earth can you make that statement about Risk Compensation, other than my brain assessing risk continually, I'm sure I don't ride any more dangerously in hi viz and helmet, I've got a very healthy fear of having an accident and I'm not cutting any corners because I'm wearing it, if you wear something every single day, you're barely aware you're wearing it anyway seems to me
the cracked skull was 'possible', I'd somersaulted over a car doing over 25mph as I recall with the side of my head being the first thing to touch the road on the other side, maybe it wouldn't have cracked my skull, it's an inch thick from various knocks over my life, but I was still very glad to be wearing it
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Would you ride regularly on your commute without a helmet? The answer based on your previous posts, is no. That is proof of your risk compensation behaviour. You're using safety equipment to compensate for and allow you to take part in an activity that you perceive as too risky to do otherwise. If it were really that risky, you'd be better off not cycling in the first place rather than relying on safety gear that only might work, and then only in a very limited set of accident circumstances.
I know that I'm similarly guilty of risk compensation with the awesome stopping power of the brakes on my recumbent.
I know that I'm similarly guilty of risk compensation with the awesome stopping power of the brakes on my recumbent.
