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Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
BentMikey said:
Would you ride regularly on your commute without a helmet? The answer based on your previous posts, is no. That is proof of your risk compensation behaviour. You're using safety equipment to compensate for and allow you to take part in an activity that you perceive as too risky to do otherwise. If it were really that risky, you'd be better off not cycling in the first place rather than relying on safety gear that only might work, and then only in a very limited set of accident circumstances.

you don't half make some odd statements and frankly I find your 'proofs' anything but

I'm using safety equipment because it's a good idea and reduces me chance of serious injury

If there was no such thing as helmets I'd still ride

It's a simple no brainer for me, it costs me nothing and might save my arse, ditto lights, ditto hi viz

It's not risk compensation, it's common sense, it doesn't affect my riding at all to my knowledge
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
If you weren't risk compensating, then you would be quite happy to ride without a helmet for say, the next year, even though helmets currently exist.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
post that as much as you like

in what way is it compensating? for what?

it's a simple precaution, is wearing gloves risk compensation?
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
It's a pity you can't admit an obviously correct point, and that you've got such a chip on your shoulder about me now that you will contest much of what I post, and never admit the positive points.
 
A bit of googling found this

http://www.camdencyclists.org.uk/info/tforum/hillman1991

So picking bits out

EVIDENCE FROM AUSTRALIA
Not surprisingly, one of the two main studies on the effect of the helmet legislation has concluded that it is 'almost impossible to isolate and measure the contribution of cycle helmets', that 'there are no reliable figures on which to base analysis' (Cameron, Heiman and Neiger, 1992)!


Fair enough, Jury's still out then.

It can be seen too that cycle fatalities account for only 1 in 17 of all road fatalities and 1 in 12 of those that are result from head injury.

So need to get too out of shape about wearing a helmet or not.

nearly three-quarters of serious injuries and two in three of fatalities result from collision with a car; and heavy goods vehicles account for a disproportionately high number of cycle fatalities - that is, 21 per cent - though representing only seven per cent of traffic (Department of Transport, 1992). Analysis of fatalities in road accidents in the last seven years in inner and outer London, with their relatively high traffic volumes, shows that HGVs (heavy goods vehicles) are involved in 56 and 30 per cent, and cars in 26 and 54 per cent respectively of all cycle deaths in these two areas of the capital (Gilbert and McCarthy, 1993).

It goes on to say that helmets don't provide a lot of protection against vehicle collisions (even motorbike helmets are not that great).

There can be little doubt that the very act of wearing a cycle helmet must encourage cyclists to feel more confident that, in the event of an accident, their risk of head injury will be reduced. Yet road safety campaigners, helmet manufacturers, and others persuaded of the benefits of helmet wearing, effectively imprint on cyclists' minds that they will be safer if they wear a helmet, but do not warn of the very limited benefit that it would offer following an accident involving a motor vehicle.

Right, so a bit of education required about what helmets will protect you from then - basically yourself.

So why do I wear a helmet. I wear one because it might save me fracturing my skull if I come off, like I did once. It might not but it just might. I don't expect it to save me from a car collision. I might not even hit my head if I come off again, after all it only happened once, probably won't happen again.

I'm happy. I shall continue wearing a helmet.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
what obviously correct point? the one you insist is a fact for me? don't you think you're not admitting my 'obviously correct point' as well? It's called a difference of opinion isn't it?

no chip at all, promise, no problem either

if you want me to commend your positive points I will, do you?
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
crackle, my earlier post in reply to your earlier post was a bit facetious, I agree with your opinion on helmets

and the oz report was one I had in mind regarding a confusing report, seems to me it can't possibly hurt, other than those dreaded rotational forces
 
Tynan said:
crackle, my earlier post in reply to your earlier post was a bit facetious, I agree with your opinion on helmets

Was it? I completly missed that ;)

Tynan said:
and the oz report was one I had in mind regarding a confusing report, seems to me it can't possibly hurt, other than those dreaded rotational forces

If anything was going to change my mind on helmet wearing it would be evidence that they can worsen an injury or evidence that they won't stop me cracking my skull. The rotational study doesn't yet convince me: BM any link for those impact forces you quoted?
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Nice post crackle, I too think the jury is largely out. My beef is the emphasis and "necessity" so many cyclists put on helmets, when their direct effect is unnoticeable across a large population, from a safety point of view. I'm distinctly unhappy with their indirect effects, and this is where helmets cause real harm to all cyclists, to a far greater extent than any possible safety gain, even that attributed by the most laughable of the pro-helmet studies. This is in both direct health losses due to lower activity, and the reduction in numbers of cyclists affecting road safety.

I know anecdotally of one person who gained an injury thanks to her helmet. Ravenbait, with serious neck injury, whom some of you will remember. Like you, I think there may be accidents where helmets have worked, but given the large pop. data, that then implies that there must also have been cases where they've caused or worsened injury. That seems quite likely given facts such as how much larger a helmet makes your head and that wearing a helmet seems to make cyclists 7 times more likely to hit their head in the first place. On the other hand, it's possible that an alternative scenario is the case - that helmets don't do much either to save or to harm.

Tynan, you are risk compensating, you've demonstrated that is fact by saying you don't want to cycle without a helmet. I'm sorry you don't like that, and feel the need to argue the point, it's like having an opinion that the earth is flat.
 

gambatte

Middle of the pack...
Location
S Yorks
Rode a bike all the time as a kid, mates did as well. I can remember the occasional bust arm, fractured wrist etc. Can't remember 1 head injury, bit of gravel rash, maybe?

Nevertheless, I don't wear wrist protectors, but I always wear a helmet.

Go figure.


Maybe its just I reckon a fractured wrists less of a threat than a fractured skull?
 
me too. Fallen off lots of bikes and motorbikes, not to mention the odd rock climb. Hit my head just once; fractured it. It hurt. I got up and walked home. Most painful journey I've ever made. I suffered for months afterwards with dizziness and generally feeling not myself. Even though it happened about 17 years ago I still remember it. I've been wearing a helmet ever since. Starting with those pudding basin ones with no airflow, replaced soon after with the first modern looking Bell. Pain is a powerful incentive.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Ohh like usual this has gone off topic. Still got the lights on - thought might as well..... did turn the big 'uns off just before work as the sun had appeared, but left the LEDS on. Might as well nothing lost and I'm giving the drivers time to adjust...... it's not exactly costing me much to leave them on !

Helmets....I'm not convinced about the ability to stop a cracked skull, but I wear mine for four reasons....

1. Might stop a nasty gash or gravel rash on my head - got to hurt more than on the body...that said my head has never hit the ground in a crash, only ever got a whack on the head when hit my helmet on a low branch in an MTB race......

2. I have a well vented one, and feel it actually cools my head better than without - I use a thin skull cap under to soak up the sweat and the air venting wicks the sweat away...

3. Can be quite trendy these days ????????? Have you seen the lads with proper round bowl shaped ones...like rock climbing ones...argh !

4. Some barsteward will claim contributory negligence if you do get mashed, even if your head is intact.

For kids, having seen the damage my son can do to his, then fine - head butting the curb..... but he's the only one on our road that wears his, because I know he rides far too fast, and jumps up/down curbs...so don't quite fance 3-4 hours in A&E
 
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