Oh. My. God! Who's to blame?

[RedRider]

1. You live (if you're lucky) and learn. Fairly sure I've never done anything so brainless on my bike, certainly never been scraped like that, but I'm a lot more aware having seen and had a couple of near misses in more reckless times.

2. Don't think the bus driver did anything wrong but I bet they're shaken enough to check, check and check their mirrors again in future. At least for the next week. On that level, does idiotic cycling make things safer for the rest of us?

3. Sickening moment when the first cyclist disappears from view but I'm reserving my biggest headshake for the one in blue. When I first moved to London I quickly ditched the tube for my bike 'cos (among other things) I didn't like the way the rush hour underground changed people into anti-social, impatient loons. Sad to say the affect persists in rush hour cyclists.

 

[marinyork]

This really is a side-issue, but I would suggest that if he is changing course/direction, then "use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off" (rule 103) pretty much covers it. You could argue that he was staying in lane, but given that (1) he's going straight on in what is actually a left-turn-only lane[*], (2) the lane itself moves rightwards to accommodate a left-hand cycle lane, it would have been polite for him to have done so.

Yes, which I've said people will interpret in different ways. Why people other than yourself seem to be going over the same ground as it is new is beyond me. Nor did I say the lack of indication was the most important factor, I mentioned it.

 

[Dan B]

2. Don't think the bus driver did anything wrong but I bet they're shaken enough to check, check and check their mirrors again in future. At least for the next week. On that level, does idiotic cycling make things safer for the rest of us?

I ride (and skate) along that road regularly, and I have to say most bus drivers on that route are already very good about checking their mirrors. More than once I've stopped behind a bus driver in what I subsequently realised was his blind spot and the bus driver has then remained stationary when the lights go green because he doesn't know I didn't ride up along his nearside.


It's a major cycle-commuter route (further into town it becomes Clerkenwell Road and then Theobalds Road) and I'd expect that every bus driver who drives that road regularly is well acquainted with the full range of cyclists - idiot and otherwise.

 

[marinyork]

[QUOTE 1406433"]
And now you're backtracking. Earlier you claimed that it was veering. Now you're saying the same as everyone else.[/quote] I said by what some would regard is. As a few people on here have said they can't decide whether it is going straight or not or is small in their view as to dismiss it. Easy enough to understand? If I was backtracking I would have said the bus was going bang on straight like others have. I've given the bus driver the benefit of the doubt, but he isn't going bang on straight in my view. As I said if people want the simple and light view, this is why I've attributed a small amount of blame to the bus driver. If you want to think about it a bit more you can see asterix and Dan B's posts which I think sum things up reasonably well from other people.

[QUOTE 1406433"]What would I do? What anyone with basic road sense would do. I'd hang back and not try a dangerous overtake in the middle of a junction and through a gap that isn't wide enough.

What would you do? Die and then blame someone else?
[/quote]

I was talking about the bus driver. Nowhere in that paragraph did it mention the cyclist. Any normal person who can read would regard that as talking about the bus driver. I am very sorry you are unable to understand this and choose to attack my character implying that I would cycle in the manner of the hipster.

Apart from not even being able to cycle that fast I would only do any sort of filtering manoeuvre whatsoever of any kind on a junction I was extremely familiar with on a daily basis. It really isn't for me to say in general terms how people ride. If someone was crazy enough to ask for advice off me about that junction I would say stay bang on in primary behind the bus and other vehicles in the left hand lane and wait till the bus had cleared at least half of the junction and was accelerating away at a fair old speed before switching to a strong position towards the cycle lane, bearing in mind that someone will probably undertake you anyway on a bike, so don't do it too suddenly.

There are plenty of bad things and I've always viewed it as 'I'd really rather you didn't' than prescriptive ten commandment stuff. If someone comes a cropper then it certainly has nothing to do with me.

 

[thomas]

I love how some drivers start beeping despite someone possibly suffering serious injury or worse, cyclists fault though for riding like a idiot.

I think the beeps were people just trying to make sure that the driver(s) had realised and did not move/crush the guy.

Could be wrong, but if I were behind I'd probably hoot/do something to make sure that the guy didn't come of any worst.

Oh well. Teach the guy to eat that big curry the night before and think he can still fit through those tight gaps

 

[RedRider]

It's a major cycle-commuter route (further into town it becomes Clerkenwell Road and then Theobalds Road) and I'd expect that every bus driver who drives that road regularly is well acquainted with the full range of cyclists - idiot and otherwise.

I expect you're right. But speaking of Theobald's Rd and idiotic cyclists...one time in those glorious days before he became mayor, Boris Johnson jumped a red light on it and had it not been for some sharp breaking on my part would've bumped right into me as I crossed from Red Lion St.

 

[Bimble]

Yes, which I've said people will interpret in different ways. Why people other than yourself seem to be going over the same ground as it is new is beyond me. Nor did I say the lack of indication was the most important factor, I mentioned it.

In all seriousness do you think anyone other than the cyclist is to blame?

If so, what is your reasoning. I'm genuinely interested.

Here's what I see (and I presume most others do as well):

• the bus is on the inside lane moving forward in the line of traffic it is already established in - going with the flow of traffic and moving along in an expected way with the rest of the traffic, and not wildly or unexpectedly veering off in any particular direction
• the truck at the head of the outside lane of traffic, stationary and indicating it's intention to turn right
• the cyclist overtaking on the outside of the outer lane (where the traffic is stopped waiting behind the turning truck) at a greater speed than the rest of the traffic in the scenario, and in a position where the bus driver would have (I assume again) difficulty seeing him approaching (or at least reacting to him "going for the gap").

The truck driver is stopped. He's indicating, and is in a reasonable and expected position to perform the manouver.

The bus driver is proceeding in a straight, low speed, and expected way, with the truck stopped and so a "clear" right side.

The cyclist is moving at greater speed than those around him, is crossing lanes, and is swerving around the back of the truck and in front of the bus (or not, in this case).

Unfortunately the cyclist mis-times his approach, does not slow down to make an assessment of the situation and ends up in between the two vehicles.

I'm curious how it could be interpreted in a different way, but if you have experience in accident assessment and feel it is not so, "black and white" then I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

Is it more of a technical/phrasing sort of thing, or are you thinking that the vehicles were party to the cause of the accident?

Sorry if you have laready covered this.

 

[Bimble]

Sorry I spent so long typing I think you covered this.

 

[Tommi]

(1) he's going straight on in what is actually a left-turn-only lane[*]

[*&] albeit one which, if you know the area, approximately everyone ignores the road markings and treats as a going-straight-on lane

Apparently the lane markings are only advisory. At least that's what RoadsafeLondon replied when I complained about a car on left/straight-only lane making a right turn across straight/right-only lane, uncomfortably near traffic going straight IMO.

 

[fossyant]

Blah blah. Cyclist was an idiot. Simples.

 

[joebingo]

As I sadly seem to be saying more and more often on here as posters get more and more arrogant and assume everyone else is an idiot:-

trivially.

I'm sorry Marin, but you're the only person in this thread who's doing this.

A lot of the time, we complain about drivers who make the choice to overtake us too closely. Fact is, in most cases, we could move further over to the left when we see it about to happen and it wouldn't be a problem. If I were to go into one of those threads and say "Nah, you're 35% to blame for this incident", I would be (rightfully) battered down by every following post.

There are times when apportioning blame in RTCs is appropriate, this is not one of them. Everyone in the video, apart from the cyclist was acting within the law and the highway code. The person who is making an overtake, is always 100% responsible for whether or not it is safe to overtake at any given time. This cyclist got it wrong.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Just seen this posted over on Bike Radar.... words fail me. I'd be interested in seeing how different people dissect it to apportion blame for what happens.

Video is here

97% the cyclist for being a twat. 2% the bus driver, moving when another road use was there ( wasn't he looking in his mirror going through such a small gap?), 1% the pickup driver, moving for no real reason, with nowhere to go and closing the gap.

 

[Brahan]

The small gap was there before the cyclist. Irrespective of what caused it, it was there before the rider arrived. The cyclist should be prepared to navigate safely around any potential obstacles (if that's how you want to classify this scene) but he wasn't. What a tosser. A very luck tosser but a tosser none the less.

<div><br></div><div>EDIT: 100% rider's fault.</div>

 

[dand_uk]

100% idiotic cyclist fault

 

[Guvnor]

25% bus driver, 10% pick up, 65% cyclist. I apportioned the blame to the cyclist mostly on the ridiculous speed he does it at on top of committing identical stupidities that the bus driver does. I'm not a fan of people making up absurd excuses like "I only had 8 seconds to see him guv" as often blights these sort of things, but in this case you can see there was a 2 second window for both cyclist and bus driver to react and it was too late for the cyclist, and the bus driver probably couldn't even see him until even less than that.

Are we watching the same video? the only person at fault is the muppet on the bike. Neither the bus driver or the truck do anything wrong at all. Theres always one that thinks the sun shines out of a cyclists arse no mater how bad they ride.....