Oh. My. God! Who's to blame?

[asterix]

The cyclist was heading for a narrowing gap, he could have braked but decided to go for it.

It was, to quote the video, 'really stupid' riding.

(I think marinyork just likes arguing. End of.)

 

[marinyork]

[QUOTE 1406425"]
That's twice now you've interpreted something you didn't like as being 'funny'. Odd. As odd as interpreting the correct view as moronic.[/quote]

No, I did not say I regarded post 122 as funny, that is simply factually incorrect and in your imagination. I was talking in general terms about this thread and even others of a similar nature in commuting.

[QUOTE 1406425"]It's a simple view, yes. And the right one. You came up with your percentages based on a scenario that doesn't exist. The bus isn't veering anywhere, the truck couldn't physically have positioned himself any further to the right, and there's apparently a taxi somewhere which the bus is trying to overtake.

It is simple. The cyclist made several mistakes when he decided to make for the gap. The truck and the bus are in acceptable positions.

[/quote]

It's not that simple. I do no see why people try to shy away from things and simplify things. If people want an 'oh gosh' thread that is fine, but they should really say so.

The bus was not actually going completely straight, it's not by what some would regard as a very big amount, but as I've tried to make clear with a pick up truck slightly blocking a large and slightly wide vehicle from getting past (still much less the pick up fault's than the buses), what do you do in such a situation? Answers on a post card.

 

[Jezston]

I'm not wanting to appeal to any clique here or whatnot, but honestly I cannot fathom where Marinyork is coming from here. Bus overtaking taxi? Undertaking the truck? Truck not further right? I really honestly don't see what he's getting at.

 

[asterix]

Looking further along the video, there is a cycle lane the other side of the junction.

Now if I was driving a bus, it's clear that I am going to have to move over a bit to avoid driving in it.

I think it is obvious that is what the driver was doing. In other words he wasn't changing lane or pulling away from the kerb but moving over to allow space for cyclists. In which case he should not indicate.

What's more, he is actually giving room to cyclists on his left and probably that is where he expects cyclists to appear.

The bus driver is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

[Asprilla]

I don't see how it matters that the bus was going straight or not. He was within his lane and he's entitled to use all of the lane. He was already moving when the cyclist swooped in from the left and he doesn't have to leave a gap for filtering. I doubt he was aware of the cyclist until the sound of impact. Even if he was aware he had no reason to expect the cyclist to go for the (lack of) gap.

The car turning right was positioned within his lane for turning right. That is all that his demanded of him (he wasn't blocking any other lanes) and he did it.

The bus driver and pick-up driver did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[marinyork]

(I think marinyork just likes arguing. End of.)

I read the hierarchical set of some several hundred ideas otherwise known as the highway code and in a few hundred very predictable scenarios on the road and say my views from them when assigning blame. Other people's responses are very predictable I know what many of them are going to say, why would I wish to argue in that scenario (it isn't like I get much out of it)? It is merely encouraing people to think. I don't see how repeating oh goshes really helps in a discussion, but they are free to if they wish - I'm not particularly going to wish some ill will on someone like some on here might. If anyone reads many of my posts they'll know I'm not very good at this sort of behaviour of piling in some light sentiment in a thread, why I keep away from the cafe as much as possible (and here to an extent).

When discussing road accidents my views are fairly consistent on manoeuvres, lanes, marking and discipline, I will tend to judge things in a more harsh way for people that don't follow it than other people on this forum does so for example I was much less sympathetic to the orthodox view of a very heated debate on here that got locked about a cyclist being killed (again a very unpopular view).

I think I will probably leave it there. I doubt the life expectancy of the cyclist is that long and if such a future scenario happened I expect that without video evidence as in this case tending to apportion some blame towards other parties in my view, would conclude that it was 100% the cyclists fault.

 

[Asprilla]

Can you tell us which points of the HC were broken by the bus driver and the pick-up driver?

 

[Midnight]

Looking further along the video, there is a cycle lane the other side of the junction.

Now if I was driving a bus, it's clear that I am going to have to move over a bit to avoid driving in it.

I think it is obvious that is what the driver was doing. In other words he wasn't changing lane or pulling away from the kerb but moving over to allow space for cyclists. In which case he should not indicate.

What's more, he is actually giving room to cyclists on his left and probably that is where he expects cyclists to appear.

The bus driver is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Just what I was thinking. He's just left a bus lane, but there's no bus lane ahead so he's manoeuvring clear of the cycle lane ahead.

Let's not forget that from this perspective, none of us can see what the bus driver and pick-up driver sees, and it'd be easy to make the wrong assumption about their road positions. I've watched the video over and over, and IMO the cyclist was careless and wholly responsible. It was an error of judgement, and I get the impression the cyclist realised his mistake and was trying to brake, but far too late to be able to stop.

On balance, how many of us have never made a silly mistake on a bike, on the road? Cyclists or motorists, we're all human (though I often have my doubts about the latter)

 

[Dan B]

[QUOTE 1406423"]
Should he have indicated?
[/quote]
I can't say from the video with any certainty whether he was going in a straight line or not. But: if he was pulling out to avoid the cycle lane that starts just the other side of the junction, then yes he should have indicated. If he wasn't trying to avoid the cycle lane that starts just the other side of the junction, then why wasn't he?

Either way, though, it's a side-issue. It's hardly a grievous sin, and we can only speculate as to whether the cyclist would even have seen the indicator or done anything differently if he had. I agree with the majority view that the cyclist was to blame here

 

[LosingFocus]

Google Maps Street View shows the route the bus took to be straight.

 

[Dan B]

Wow, there was a street view car present? I didn't see that in the video

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

[QUOTE 1406423"]
Should he have indicated?
[/quote]

Actually, no. I thought he had set off from a bus stop, but I see he didn't. The bus driver did nothing wrong.

 

[Asprilla]

I can't say from the video with any certainty whether he was going in a straight line or not. But: if he was pulling out to avoid the cycle lane that starts just the other side of the junction, then yes he should have indicated. If he wasn't trying to avoid the cycle lane that starts just the other side of the junction, then why wasn't he?

I've just had a quick search of the HC and since he was staying in lane I can't find any instruction that he should have indicated.

As has been mentioned, if he was joining traffic from parked / stopped then, yes he should have, but he was in lane so there was no need to indicate.

 

[LosingFocus]

Wow, there was a street view car present? I didn't see that in the video

Fnarp.

 

[Dan B]

I've just had a quick search of the HC and since he was staying in lane I can't find any instruction that he should have indicated.

As has been mentioned, if he was joining traffic from parked / stopped then, yes he should have, but he was in lane so there was no need to indicate.

This really is a side-issue, but I would suggest that if he is changing course/direction, then "use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off" (rule 103) pretty much covers it. You could argue that he was staying in lane, but given that (1) he's going straight on in what is actually a left-turn-only lane[*], (2) the lane itself moves rightwards to accommodate a left-hand cycle lane, it would have been polite for him to have done so.


[*&] albeit one which, if you know the area, approximately everyone ignores the road markings and treats as a going-straight-on lane