Organic 'has no health benefits'

[Ranger]

As for local stuff being cheaper - where I am local meat is NOT cheaper. Indeed it's more expensive. There's a farm shop up the road from me and as much as I'd like to source all my meat from there I simply cannot afford it as it is *expensive* I try to buy local when I can, failing that, UK, failing that European. I also try to buy seasonal veg - and am growing most of my own. All eggs are produced in the back garden by my four Lovely Laydeez

This is the problem with locally produced, especially living where you do Waffly as most if not all the land is taken up in vegetable and arable production. When I lived on the Cambridgeshire/Lincolnshire/Norfolk border I could get fruit and veg (in season) so cheaply it was unbelievable. Now living in a more upland area getting veg is difficult but game and meat is relatively easy.

Can I suggest that for buying meat over the internet is the way to go. I have a chest freezer and buy a lamb carcass/half a pig/quater of a cow at a time make it cheap in the long run though the initial investment makes you wince

 

[wafflycat]

I think that's really sad and disappointing. Sadly it reflects our country's attitude to food I think.

Wild rabbits are 2 for £5 in my local farm shop - and obviously they are local and have had a wild and free life before some bugger shot them (ie they didn;t spend their life locked in some barn.

Montjac deers are often a problem for farmers - I know you live in Norfolk , and I don;t know the situation there. I went to a Sussex farmer I buy some rabbits from and he sold me a Monyjac saddle for £5 - effectively like a reasonable quantity of fillet steak

I fed 7 peope at a barbie with the Montjqac

I can get roughly the same meat off 2 decent sized rabbits as one and a half chickens (depends on the sex/age of the rabbit). Obviously £5 worth of chicken gets you the most poorly kept chicken possible.

My entire veg bill never (except in etreme situatons) goes over £10

It's easy to preach though - I really enjoy cooking and sourcing food.

I'm lucky enough to have the time and resources to do it

But cheap / local / healthy food I believe is everwhere (certainly in rural areas)

Oh dear.. deer? You'll have the don't eat cute furry creatures brigade out in force. I kid you not.

Let's see... I *tried* to source a local organic veg box. As an example, the geographically nearest wouldn't as I'm slightly off their current route. Several suppliers did not answer the phone or emails asking about their service. One that did answer would do it but I had to travel many miles at a specific time each week to suit them to collect it (which rather defeats the purpose) and the one I finally found out about to do a veg box delivery scheme was this: cr4p. Whilst I expect to pay a premium for organic what I did not expect was to pay a premium for cr4p. Items were missing from the order and others were rotting - yes, rotting. Not mis-shapen or with a bit of a blemish, but actually rotting... So I stick to growing at least some of my own veg with veg from my lovely neighbour (this is giving me 99% of veg requirements at the moment), baking my own bread, having the hens in the garden supply eggs and trying to source local meat when I can for an affordable price as opposed to a rip-off price. And considering I live in a major farming area, I found the difficulty of finding decent local suppliers at reasonable (not ultra cheap) cost far too much hard bloody work.

 

[Cathryn]

Feeding the world would be a whole lot easier if we ate less meat. Huge swathes of European, North American and even South American farmland are given over to producing animal feed.

Totally agree. I'm trying to cut down - the husband finds it really hard though.

 

[wafflycat]

Totally agree. I'm trying to cut down - the husband finds it really hard though.

+1

DH doesn't mind the odd meal with no meat in it, but can whinge about 'lack of protein' if he gets more than 1 deliberately veggie meal per week I have tried to inform him that lack of protein in the diet is not something he suffers from... at times he seems unable/unwilling to grasp that meat is not the only source of protein

 

[dellzeqq]

there's a beautiful essay by Umberto Eco that he might be persuaded to read..

http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_bean.html

So when, in the 10th century, the cultivation of legumes began to spread, it had a profound effect on Europe. Working people were able to eat more protein; as a result, they became more robust, lived longer, created more children and repopulated a continent. We believe that the inventions and the discoveries that have changed our lives depend on complex machines. But the fact is, we are still here -- I mean we Europeans, but also those descendants of the Pilgrim Fathers and the Spanish conquistadors -- because of beans. Without beans, the European population would not have doubled within a few centuries, today we would not number in the hundreds of millions and some of us, including even readers of this article, would not exist. Some philosophers say that this would be better, but I am not sure everyone agrees.

 

[wafflycat]

I was at a lecture series at the John Innes Centre. Legumes..

There's a man there who is in charge of peas.. He has a repository of peas from all over the world. Out in the grounds he has the most fascinating display to show the genetic heritege of peas. In the middle he grows the original wild pea. Around it, linked by distance from the orginal pea and from similar, he has examples of pea cultivars from all over the world. It is a beautiful way of showing the diversity and also similarities of the pea family from all round the globe.

Possibly something you ahve to see to appreciate, but it is beautifully done.

 

[661-Pete]

I'd be interested to know where it stops being a pea and becomes a bean - or a lentil. Is it all down to the shape of the thing? And is a chickpea a pea? Is a mung bean a bean?

In answer to the "protein = meat/fish" brigade, I remember this. I've never embraced veganism myself, but I read up about it when I was a student. In those days (1960s/70s) it was all to do with 'complementary protein'. Any single veggie-derived protein, unlike animal-derived, would not contain all the essential amino-acids you need, so you need to mix your inputs. The general idea was to have one each of the 'big three' each day: something from grass (e.g. bread, rice, pasta), something from nuts, something from pulses (peas, beans). Eat a bit of each and you'll be OK for protein. (You need B12 tablets as well to stay alive).

It seems this idea has been somewhat discredited since then. Yet there may still be a grain ( - pun intended) of truth in it.

 

[Fab Foodie]

SOIL ASSOCIATION RESPONDS TO FSA REVIEW
July 30th, 2009
Responding to today’s review on organic food commissioned by the Food Standards Agency (FSA), Peter Melchett, Policy Director at the Soil Association commented:
“We are disappointed in the conclusions the researchers have reached. The review rejected almost all of the existing studies of comparisons between organic and non-organic nutritional differences. This was because these studies did not meet particular criteria fixed by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, which carried out the review.
“Although the researchers say that the differences between organic and non-organic food are not ‘important’, due to the relatively few studies, they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods. For example, the mean positive difference between the following nutrients, when comparing organic to non-organic food, was found in the FSA study to be:
- Protein 12.7%
- Beta-carotene 53.6%
- Flavonoids 38.4%
- Copper 8.3%
- Magnesium 7.1%
- Phosphorous 6%
- Potassium 2.5%
- Sodium 8.7%
- Sulphur 10.5%
- Zinc 11.3%
- Phenolic compounds 13.2%
The researchers also found higher levels of beneficial polyunsaturated fatty acids in organic meat and dairy products (between 2.1% – 27.8% higher) compared to non-organic meat and dairy.
The Soil Association is also disappointed that the FSA failed to include the results of a major European Union-funded study involving 31 research and university institutes and the publication, so far, of more than 100 scientific papers, at a cost of 18million Euros, which ended in April this year [1].
The European Union research programme concluded that:
* ‘Levels of a range of nutritionally desirable compounds (e.g. antioxidants, vitamins, glycosinolates) were shown to be higher in organic crops’
* ‘Levels of nutritionally undesirable compounds (e.g. mycotoxins, glycoalkaloids, Cadmium and Nickel) were shown to be lower in organic crops’.
In addition, levels of fatty acids, such as CLA and omega 3 were between 10 – 60% higher in organic milk and dairy products, and levels of Vitamin C were up to 90% higher in leafy vegetables and fruits.
There are limited studies available on the health benefits of organic versus non-organic food. Without large-scale, longitudinal research it is difficult to come to far-reaching clear conclusions on this, which was acknowledged by the authors of the FSA review.
Also, there is not sufficient research on the long-term effects of pesticides on human health. In 2006 the European Commission said that “long-term exposure to pesticides can lead to serious disturbances to the immune system, sexual disorders, cancers, sterility, birth defects, damage to the nervous system and genetic damage.”
Organic farming and food systems are holistic, and are produced to work with nature rather than to rely on oil-based inputs such as fertilisers. Consumers who purchase organic products are not just buying food which has not been covered in pesticides (the average apple may be sprayed up to 16 times with as many as 30 different pesticides) they are supporting a system that has the highest welfare standards for animals, bans routine use of antibiotics and increases wildlife on farms. [2]
For further comment and information contact the Soil Association press office:
T: 0117 914 2448
E: press@soilassociation.org

 

[mangaman]

Oh dear.. deer? You'll have the don't eat cute furry creatures brigade out in force. I kid you not.

Let's see... I *tried* to source a local organic veg box. As an example, the geographically nearest wouldn't as I'm slightly off their current route. Several suppliers did not answer the phone or emails asking about their service. One that did answer would do it but I had to travel many miles at a specific time each week to suit them to collect it (which rather defeats the purpose) and the one I finally found out about to do a veg box delivery scheme was this: cr4p. Whilst I expect to pay a premium for organic what I did not expect was to pay a premium for cr4p. Items were missing from the order and others were rotting - yes, rotting. Not mis-shapen or with a bit of a blemish, but actually rotting... So I stick to growing at least some of my own veg with veg from my lovely neighbour (this is giving me 99% of veg requirements at the moment), baking my own bread, having the hens in the garden supply eggs and trying to source local meat when I can for an affordable price as opposed to a rip-off price. And considering I live in a major farming area, I found the difficulty of finding decent local suppliers at reasonable (not ultra cheap) cost far too much hard bloody work.

I'm not denying any of that Wafflycat - I just find it disappointing in a rural area.

I too had a real struggle to find a local suppyer that I could rely on

Now I have a smallholding producing veg and some fruit with lovely owners, within cycling distance / cheaper and several degrees of magnitude tastier than the supermarkets.

I was lucky though - the way I did it was go to the nearest farmers' market and ask if you can visit their farms.

That's how I got to know my meat and veg suppliers and they give me great deals as I've got to know them over the years. Obviously this not may work everywhere - but worth a try

 

[Bigtwin]

Oh dear.. deer? You'll have the don't eat cute furry creatures brigade out in force. I kid you not.

Mmmmm - kid. Lightly split roasted - tender and delicious....

 

[wafflycat]

I'm not denying any of that Wafflycat - I just find it disappointing in a rural area.

I too had a real struggle to find a local suppyer that I could rely on

Now I have a smallholding producing veg and some fruit with lovely owners, within cycling distance / cheaper and several degrees of magnitude tastier than the supermarkets.

I was lucky though - the way I did it was go to the nearest farmers' market and ask if you can visit their farms.

That's how I got to know my meat and veg suppliers and they give me great deals as I've got to know them over the years. Obviously this not may work everywhere - but worth a try

Oh tried that...