"Paris cyclists can ignore red traffic lights"

[lejogger]

I was surprised when glancing over the site this lunchtime that no one has commented on this story in the Times today.

I apologise for the mass arguments it will surely cause, as it's an area where many of us have very strong opinions... however I'm afraid I shall still sit firmly on the fence until persuaded otherwise.

I'm not going to pretend that I've never run a red light, but I'm also not going to say I believe that giving all cyclists licence to jump to the front of queues and sail through reds willy-nilly is ever anything that I'd be completely comfortable with. I appreciate that as a cyclist, by jumping a red you are literally taking your life into your own hands, and most of us would never do so if we thought there was the remotest danger of causing injury or inconvenience to ourselves or others.
Having said this, we all know that there are a certain minority who seem to lack the basic intelligence to gauge these situations correctly, and I can't help but feel that laws moving in this way is only going to end in tears... either through injuries or worse to cyclists or pedestrians, or by even more strained relationships with motorists.

Thoughts...?

 

[Theseus]

It has a thread in C&D, but I only go there to get frightened by the extremists.

As for the concept of legal RLJ, I for one would not welcome it on these shores.

 

[siadwell]

"councillors approved a plan to allow bicycles to turn right or to go straight at a T-junction even when the lights are red"
"cyclists can ignore a traffic light and move forward if the road is clear"
"They do not have priority and will be held responsible in the event of an accident"

So not really "ignoring" red lights then, and certainly not going as far as "licence to jump to the front of queues and sail through reds willy-nilly".

Also:
"The experiment will be limited at first to a small district in north Paris. If there is no recorded rise in the number of accidents, the system will be extended to all 69 areas of the capital where there is a 30 kph speed limit." Looks like the French authorities are sitting on the fence too.

 

[lejogger]

"councillors approved a plan to allow bicycles to turn right or to go straight at a T-junction even when the lights are red"
"cyclists can ignore a traffic light and move forward if the road is clear"
"They do not have priority and will be held responsible in the event of an accident"

So not really "ignoring" red lights then, and certainly not going as far as "licence to jump to the front of queues and sail through reds willy-nilly".

Ok, perhaps the wording was a little enthusiastic, but to a responsible cyclist no it isn't, but to the sort of cyclist who already rides recklessly, it's an encouragement to take even less care... which reflects badly on all cyclists.

Also:
"The experiment will be limited at first to a small district in north Paris. If there is no recorded rise in the number of accidents, the system will be extended to all 69 areas of the capital where there is a 30 kph speed limit." Looks like the French authorities are sitting on the fence too.

Which although a decent idea in principle (as a trial), I do feel that localised laws such as this ultimately cause confusion over what is legal or acceptable and what isn't.

 

[siadwell]

but to the sort of cyclist who already rides recklessly, it's an encouragement to take even less care... which reflects badly on all cyclists.

Completely agree with you on this.

And to be fair, my criticism of the word "ignore" was aimed at the journos rather than you.

Interesting point about this being a localised law - I wonder how they will go about publicising the change?

 

[Banjo]

If used with care I think it will improve cyclists safety , you will be through the junction on your way before the mad rush of vehicles on green.Also it will reduce the amount of exhaust fumes you are breathing in at junctions.

Idiots will be idiots regardless.

 

[boydj]

Remember that Paris is starting this experiment in an environment that already very safe for cyclists with zero deaths last year. Motorists in Paris must be much more aware of and accepting of cyclists than they are in the UK.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Remember that Paris is starting this experiment in an environment that already very safe for cyclists with zero deaths last year. Motorists in Paris must be much more aware of and accepting of cyclists than they are in the UK.

Valid point.

Vive la France!

 

[caimg]

Can't see a place for it in any country TBH but glad it's not legal in the country I live in (England)!

As pointed out, it's not an individual action without consequences. It's not fair that being the law-abiding cyclist waiting patiently at the RL alongside a now understandably pissed-off WVM as a twatty RLJ screams past means I now feel more in peril. This is not to say that this is an us vs them debate with drivers - drivers get pissed off with other law-breaking drivers so that point is moot. When you run a RL, in any circumstances, you are demeaning the argument of the cycling community as a whole when we ask for more respect on the road. In my opinion, we are road users, ergo follow the rules of a road user.

 

[chinchyesek]

I'm afraid I shall continue to run red lights with a proviso
when it is completely safe to do so AND traffic conditions
allow AND NOT to be taken as
"demeaning the argument of the cycling community........."

It is my own individual choice and action and no aspersions shd be
cast on third-parties even by inference. Wd be perverse if
otherwise.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Remember that Paris is starting this experiment in an environment that already very safe for cyclists with zero deaths last year. Motorists in Paris must be much more aware of and accepting of cyclists than they are in the UK.

Knowing the French "logic", it's more likely that they aren't recorded as cyclists when they die as they were lying on the road at that point and not cycling.

 

[johnny mcgurk]

Err, how do you go straight on at a T-Junction?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Err, how do you go straight on at a T-Junction?

You are thinking one dimensionally. There are three legs to a T junction.

 

[johnny mcgurk]

You are thinking one dimensionally. There are three legs to a T junction.

Indeed, but only one leg makes it a T junction, the other legs make the junction either a left or right turn.

 

[Jezston]

Indeed, but only one leg makes it a T junction, the other legs make the junction either a left or right turn.

Oh dear...