Parking on Zig Zags

[User6179]

[QUOTE 3467248, member: 9609"]Could a local authority really say to a prospective retailer "we're not going to let you open a shop there in case someone parks illegally outside your premises" I doubt they would have that power and if they did it would be completely unreasonable, and if the premises is already earmarked for that type of business then they would have no say in the matter at all - in any case I would imagine any council would welcome with open arms anyone wishing to open a shop on our deserted high streets.[/QUOTE]


Yep , local shop was refused a takeaway licence because of where it was ,on a corner of a busy junction controlled by traffic lights .



In town centre locations, the availability of public
car parking spaces (off-street or on-street) will
rarely be a significant planning issue unless
objected to by the Director of Roads or Police
because of, eg proximity to a busy junction or
pedestrian crossing.

 

[Turbo Rider]

Yep , local shop was refused a takeaway licence because of where it was ,on a corner of a busy junction controlled by traffic lights .



In town centre locations, the availability of public
car parking spaces (off-street or on-street) will
rarely be a significant planning issue unless
objected to by the Director of Roads or Police
because of, eg proximity to a busy junction or
pedestrian crossing.

Ha! That'll teach me to scroll down! Was just about to find an example, but I think that just about covers it off.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

[QUOTE 3467284, member: 45"]Of course we are.

The driver has four chances to rectify his dangerous behaviour, or he loses his license.

You'll find that most of the idiots will only do it once.[/QUOTE]

Really?? you can quote paint on the road as a deterrent and claim seriousness???

We are all aware of the uselessness of green paint cycle lanes and the fact that many drivers have been caught speeding & get parking tickets more than once.

 

[Profpointy]

so, rather than not allow businesses near zebra crossings, why not site the zebra crossings out in the suburbs instead ?



Pish taking aside, the reason zebra crossings are sited in the high street, ergo, near shops etc, is that's where people need to cross the road. I f you don't allow shops etc near the crossings, then people won't use the crossings and will nip across elsewhere - so you might as well not have the crossings at all

 

[shouldbeinbed]

[QUOTE 3467997, member: 9609"]But it should be - we shouldn't be compelled to adjust our lifestyles to fit in with ignorant, lazy and impatient motorists. We need the current rules and regulations enforced so that motorist fit in with the rest of society.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more. But that is where we are. How do we accomplish fairness in the face of the reality of the situation without having to resort to anything more compelling than paint and signs?

My argument is not that it is acceptable, simply that it happens because there is no viable deterrent in place to enforce what is indicated by the paint, which in itself is not sufficient to stop the selfish and the lazy and the ignorant metal box dwellers who think that they are transubstantiated into some sort of god to whom the normal rules do not apply by the simple act of turning an ignition key.

I'm putting the reality onto Mr P's utopian ideal. If signs and paint worked as a deterrent there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of people with speeding points or parking tickets to their name and the Gatso cameras, traffic wardens, flashy matrix signs and mobile speeding and parking enforcement vehicles would not need exist.

I'll hark back to Oldham Metrolink again. Behaviour was not modified by the paint and signs,,nor by the blindingly obvious fact that parking as they did would stop the movement of the trams, there was no outbreak of common sense and civic decency of certain people understanding they needed to change to not hold up the public transport system, it was modified by day in day out long hours of a traffic enforcement car parked bang opposite the takeout establishments and a zero tolerance policy on parking there allied to high profile press and PR campaign supporting and promoting this policy. It took weeks to hammer home the message and ongoing random campaigns, I would guess that words were had with the establishments too seeking their cooperation.
Similarly outside my kids school, yellow paint is backed daily by traffic wardens on scooters at 3pm, think of motorway repair sections, 50mph restrictions having to be enforced by a highly visible sea of average spews cameras? We could quote any number of examples where paint and signs should but don't work.

We live in an imperfect society is all I'm saying, I'm not condoning it.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

[QUOTE 3467976, member: 45"]Do zigzag lines painted on the road deter people from parking there?

Yes, they do.

They weren't installed flippantly by a navvy with a smirk on his face.

And parking tickets don't bring points. Parking on zigzags does. An idiot can only do it so many times, and he's not going to want his insurance to increase.[/QUOTE]
I'm not disputing that at all but as per my long post above, they do not universally deter the way more 'physical' enforcement does any more.than a 30mph sign cuts speeding tickets issued on that stretch to zero. It not the paint and sign that deter on their own, it is the fear of someone or some fixed camera being there to see it be abused & to enact the penalty that the paint or signs enable the authorities to levy by civil or criminal law.

Paint alone is not a deterrent to many, paint with the fear of authority seeing it being badly used is.

You clearly live in a nicer bit of the world than me, people round here treat this stuff largely as a joke, bad parking even if 'just for a minute', excessive speed etc is routine behaviour in spite of the paint and signs and readily available legal alternatives simply because there is no commensurate human or camera intervention to back up what the paint says.

People I see clearly don't fear their insurance hikes because the chances of being officially caught on the zigzags are near as dammit non existent and as said before the times I've seen it happen have garnered no censure from the shopowners either.

Plenty of stories of 12+ point drivers, bad parkers ignoring thousands in tickets etc. Speeding and parking are huge fine takers. Why does that happen? Because paint isn't enough on its own for a great many people, as I keep saying, it needs backup.

The reward (such as it is) vastly vastly outweighs the risk.

You and I want the same outcome, as does any sensible person, we appear to live in different realities though about how that outcome has to be accomplished. Round my way, paint doesn't seem nearly as frightening to (willfully selfish) drivers on its own as it does round yours. Your area is the better one than mine.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a police officer or parking enforcement person on every street in the land? It would solve the unemployment problem at a stroke. But, failing that, it seems we do need some sort of universally recognised and simple code that would stand in for the actual presence of the police or parking enforcement person and serve as a reminder that there are rules in existence in society that people might be expected to obey. I know, what about something like a signpost, or painted lines on the road surface? If that doesn't seem like a brilliant, cheap and workable idea to you, what's your suggestion for an alternative?

Oh for pitys sake.

 

[ufkacbln]

[QUOTE 3467248, member: 9609"]Could a local authority really say to a prospective retailer "we're not going to let you open a shop there in case someone parks illegally outside your premises" I doubt they would have that power and if they did it would be completely unreasonable, and if the premises is already earmarked for that type of business then they would have no say in the matter at all - in any case I would imagine any council would welcome with open arms anyone wishing to open a shop on our deserted high streets.[/QUOTE]


They can and have......

Parking, traffic and road safety are all reasons for rejecting a planning application

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Whoosh

Ok.

There isn't a simple solution, not paint and signs because clearly on their own there are enough people willing to take the very high chance of not being caught just as there are people willing to comply with what they say without needing it reinforced by OTT human or camera intervention, which I've recognised through this entire thread.

Your sarcastic post was completely unnecessary.

At this point I'll leave with thanks to MrP for an interesting conversation

 

[ufkacbln]

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a police officer or parking enforcement person on every street in the land? It would solve the unemployment problem at a stroke. But, failing that, it seems we do need some sort of universally recognised and simple code that would stand in for the actual presence of the police or parking enforcement person and serve as a reminder that there are rules in existence in society that people might be expected to obey. I know, what about something like a signpost, or painted lines on the road surface? If that doesn't seem like a brilliant, cheap and workable idea to you, what's your suggestion for an alternative?

That the muppets stopped being muppets and showed a little social responsibility?

 

[ufkacbln]

... or alternatively automated systems that can provide cover 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

... but of course when any enforcement actually happens it is "cash generation" and persecuting the poor hard done by muppet driver

In fact the Alliance of Bad Drivers is on record that restricting parking is a basic infringement of theirrights and a "Jihad" against the "otherwise law abiding" motorist

Note: "otherwise law abiding" also excludes speeding, using the mobile, parking on the pavement, passing too closely, failing to stop at lights and junctions, tail gating, and drink driving

 

[threebikesmcginty]

A Parking Pataweyo on every street, problem solved.

 

[Turbo Rider]

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a police officer or parking enforcement person on every street in the land? It would solve the unemployment problem at a stroke. But, failing that, it seems we do need some sort of universally recognised and simple code that would stand in for the actual presence of the police or parking enforcement person and serve as a reminder that there are rules in existence in society that people might be expected to obey. I know, what about something like a signpost, or painted lines on the road surface? If that doesn't seem like a brilliant, cheap and workable idea to you, what's your suggestion for an alternative?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ED209 has been available since 1987. Must have come down in price by then as well, so if we bin off the NHS, we might have a workable solution.



Alternatively, pepper spray and Tasers should do the trick

 

[G3CWI]

I think zig-zags are a great idea. They put them outside schools so that mums who are running a little late have somewhere safe to park ...at least I think that must be the idea.

 

[BrynCP]

I think zig-zags are a great idea. They put them outside schools so that mums who are running a little late have somewhere safe to park ...at least I think that must be the idea.

If they're yellow then the penalty is probably not enough to deter them. That is if there is a penalty at all.

Do schools have bike sheds any more?