Pavement cycling

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vickster

Legendary Member
If you let us know your rough start and end point in London or the bits you think are most scary, we can probably help you find a quieter route. It's surprising how many easy backwaters there are in the city. The second thing is that if you are cycling at peak times you will almost certainly find yourself with a crowd of bicycles, which always feels a lot safer.
Until a knobber cyclist decides to cut across you, catches your front wheel and sends you sprawling. DAMHIKT :sad:

I actually far prefer not to be surrounded by lots of cyclists who can be as erratic and unpredictable as other traffic
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Until a knobber cyclist decides to cut across you, catches your front wheel and sends you sprawling. DAMHIKT :sad:
Yeah, usual group riding rules apply: trust no-one, never put your front wheel close besides someone's back wheel, trust no-one, keep the brakes covered and trust no-one. Oh and for good measure, trust no-one. Despite that, freak moves may still take you out :sad: but they are genuinely freakishly rare and bikes generally hurt less than cars :smile: so if there's traffic, I'd prefer to be in a shoal or peloton than not.
 
You have to make the decision to cycle on the pavement bearing in mind all the risks, responsibilities and advantages.
1. It is mostly against the law
2. The law does not prioritise the safety of cyclists.
3. Never endanger or startle pedestrians on the pavement
4. Beware of riding down narrow pavements with door or gate exits onto the pavement.
5. Beware of driveways and junctions across which vehicles can turn.

I choose to cycle on empty pavements in industrial zones with no house/shop/parked cars or pedestrians during rush hour commutes.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
Yeah, usual group riding rules apply: trust no-one, never put your front wheel close besides someone's back wheel, trust no-one, keep the brakes covered and trust no-one. Oh and for good measure, trust no-one. Despite that, freak moves may still take you out :sad: but they are genuinely freakishly rare and bikes generally hurt less than cars :smile: so if there's traffic, I'd prefer to be in a shoal or peloton than not.
I was at lights, he cut across from my right to my left. Nothing to do with my wheel positioning. I was going straight on.
I’d rather just have to deal with motorised traffic not a hoard of other cyclists. I don’t ride in groups and don’t expect to when commuting or riding for recreation. Luckily I don’t commute now into London
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
It's not really optional at peak rush hour now. You'll always find yourself with company from commuters, deliveroo cyclists, messenger/couriers, food delivery on luggage cycles etc. It's a regular circus.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
It's not really optional at peak rush hour now. You'll always find yourself with company from commuters, deliveroo cyclists, messenger/couriers, food delivery on luggage cycles etc. It's a regular circus.
Which is why even when I do work in London, I don’t Cycle except on the very rare occasion. It’s a bit better in summer holidays as less vehicles. Scooter riders are a complete menace too
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
True. There is a certain breed of red trouser wearing plonker who uses an electric scooter or a brompton (not all brompton riders - but you all know the ones I mean) that are very very annoying.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I was at lights, he cut across from my right to my left. Nothing to do with my wheel positioning. I was going straight on.
Yeah, like I wrote, sometimes freak moves can still take you down. :hugs:

I’d rather just have to deal with motorised traffic not a hoard of other cyclists. I don’t ride in groups and don’t expect to when commuting or riding for recreation. Luckily I don’t commute now into London
No-one gets private roads for one's whole commute and I couldn't disagree more about wanting the plonkers to be motorised.
 
I use a scooter, advantage I can take it on the bus, however with such small wheels it is rather unstable, even at 15 MPH down hill it is rather scary specially as the brakes have a tenancy to over heat when one weighs 22 stone. And as a bearded 68 year old I also get some funny looks. So to walk to summit of Moel Famau with a scooter using it for the down hill sections may be OK, but in a busy city street I think not.
 

LeetleGreyCells

Un rouleur infatigable
I use a scooter, advantage I can take it on the bus, however with such small wheels it is rather unstable, even at 15 MPH down hill it is rather scary specially as the brakes have a tenancy to over heat when one weighs 22 stone. And as a bearded 68 year old I also get some funny looks. So to walk to summit of Moel Famau with a scooter using it for the down hill sections may be OK, but in a busy city street I think not.
I had a full 5 minutes on my son’s scooter the other day. By the time I was done, the leg that I had been using to support my weight on the running board ached and ached. I’ve no idea how he scoots for so long.

And how you go at 15mph I don’t know. The scooter was unstable enough at 4mph.
 
15 MPH is down hill both feet on the board one half positioned over the brake ready, used mainly as I have a bus pass and will travel. However the bus stops short of the walks, and there is often some paved down hill sections.

4. Beware of riding down narrow pavements with door or gate exits onto the pavement.
That is a real problem, we do have a duel carriageway 50 MPH limit and signs saying no cycling on main carriageway, and the foot path is officially classed as a cycle path, it is straight so no problem sharing with other users on the path, but there is a thick hedge between house back gardens and the track, so anyone joining the track from one of the houses could easy be hit by a cyclist going down the hill which is steep enough to get to 30 MPH without pedalling.

However it would seem people are aware as I am not aware of any accidents on that section. And to ride on the road would be really dangerous as it is really a motorway in all but name, joining Holyhead to the M56.

If some one talks about a particular road, like the A494 Ewlow to Queensferry then those in the area can say there is a back road called Stag lane or Shotton lane which bypasses that section, although to be frank that lane winds and is likely more dangerous than the cycle route, but you can give an alternative, however London, North Wales, Scotland is far to large an area to expect advice on routes to take.

And to me at 68 how steep the hill is, and if it's safe to get off and walk the steep bits are important, also ability to built up speed down hill to get up other side. On the flat cruising along at 8 MPH is great on the cycle paths, and dropping to 4 MPH when loads of pedestrians is not a problem, I have all the time in the world, but if you need to get to work for a set time, I can see 8 MPH does not really cut it. But again at 15 MPH cars can stop in time in a 30 MPH section and pass without one hopes causing danger. It must be far easier to pass a bike to passing a mobility scooter when the latter is limited to 8 MPH.

Why is it called a mobility scooter? I thought the scoot means "go or leave somewhere quickly" those mobility scooters are not quick.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
15 MPH is down hill both feet on the board one half positioned over the brake ready, used mainly as I have a bus pass and will travel. However the bus stops short of the walks, and there is often some paved down hill sections.


That is a real problem, we do have a duel carriageway 50 MPH limit and signs saying no cycling on main carriageway, and the foot path is officially classed as a cycle path, it is straight so no problem sharing with other users on the path, but there is a thick hedge between house back gardens and the track, so anyone joining the track from one of the houses could easy be hit by a cyclist going down the hill which is steep enough to get to 30 MPH without pedalling.

However it would seem people are aware as I am not aware of any accidents on that section. And to ride on the road would be really dangerous as it is really a motorway in all but name, joining Holyhead to the M56.

If some one talks about a particular road, like the A494 Ewlow to Queensferry then those in the area can say there is a back road called Stag lane or Shotton lane which bypasses that section, although to be frank that lane winds and is likely more dangerous than the cycle route, but you can give an alternative, however London, North Wales, Scotland is far to large an area to expect advice on routes to take.

And to me at 68 how steep the hill is, and if it's safe to get off and walk the steep bits are important, also ability to built up speed down hill to get up other side. On the flat cruising along at 8 MPH is great on the cycle paths, and dropping to 4 MPH when loads of pedestrians is not a problem, I have all the time in the world, but if you need to get to work for a set time, I can see 8 MPH does not really cut it. But again at 15 MPH cars can stop in time in a 30 MPH section and pass without one hopes causing danger. It must be far easier to pass a bike to passing a mobility scooter when the latter is limited to 8 MPH.

Why is it called a mobility scooter? I thought the scoot means "go or leave somewhere quickly" those mobility scooters are not quick.
8mph is plenty quick enough for something designed to be used on pavements or where LEDs might be present like shops. A brisk walking pace is around 4mph, so that's something heavy and solid that can gontwice that speed. Nothing should ever be travelling on a pavement at 15mph where there's even a slight possibility of foot traffic being present or appearing
 
Yesterday it was a nice day so took the route Shotton, Ellesmereport, Chester and back to Shotton. It was a mixture of road and side pavement and a mixture of signs. In some cases the blue oblong cycle sign, some round cycle signs, some segregated showing which side the foot and cycle users should take, some areas completely separate to motor traffic others motor traffic was alongside.

While on the enforced cycle route, I saw a bunch of riders riding 3 abreast on the road, with cars having to move to the oncoming lane to pass, when done as an event with warning signs OK, but no warning signs and there was really no reason why they were on the road, never mind 3 abreast, there was a designated cycle track where they could have been 3 abreast for much of the time without affecting motor traffic.

The most likely part of the trip where cycles could have had problems with pedestrians was on the tow path, and this section there is no way you can cycle away from walkers, as one got closer to Ellesmereport so the road crossings got worst, as start there were cycle, pedestrian, horse crossings with high buttons for house riders, then as the traffic got heavier the crossings lights went, still signs to show you were to cross with the blue round cycle signs to show you must use the track, but the crossing was not suitable for children. The last under the motorway on the roundabout was really bad, and signs to show where you needed to cross road to join tow path did not exist.

The surface of the tow path was hard but not suitable for racing cycles, you need a reasonable wide tyre but not requiring mountain bike tyres. It improved just before the return leg where I joined the old railway route, a wider track than better surface to the tow path. The final part can either go over the road on the new Welsh bridge then a second steep climb to Hawarden Bridge station or follow the road and cross duel carriage way at the Burnt out Gateway to Wales hotel which I selected. And one is directed to the cycle track on the right side of the road.

However in a few places that cycle track stops being on the raised pavement and one ends up riding contra flow to motorised traffic which is not really what I wanted, however one can see why, as the cycle track other side of road stops at railway bridge, but again lack of signs to show how one can go through carpark and side roads and join the combined pedestrian/cycle track past the leisure centre.

Because I have local knowledge I crossed main road and joined traffic, however the signs take you right into centre of Shotton where it is clearly not safe to ride on the raised section of pavement once you pass the bike shop and railway station. There are signs as one goes further that say in English only "no cycling on walkway" but lack of international signs or anything to define the walkway, it seems the coastal cycle route 5 keeps disappearing as one cycles towards Greenfield with some really odd directions.

From Queensferry to Shotton there is no end of cycle route signs, and a complete hopscotch of instructions depending on how you enter Shotton.

So in real terms the main problem is signs, we have contra flow in Queeensferry and Deeside industrial estate in the latter cyclists from the Wirral have to ignore the no entry sign and cycle wrong way down a one way street, I can see why, other route would include a dangerous roundabout, however you can't expect a cyclist to disobey one sign and obey others, where the cycle route is down a no entry or dead end road, there should be at least an except cycles sign.

Pavement means a hard surface, all major roads are paved, with a paver often called barbergreen after the firm who make them, so we can't have a sign saying no riding on pavement as the road is a pavement, all we can have is a no cycling on the walkway, but we still have to define it as a walkway, and signs saying rejoin main carriageway or enforced cycle way are pointless if there is not a suitable drop curb to allow the transfer.

Until the county council get their act together and actually put up signs, it's all a pointless argument, going into Shotton on the left from Queensferry at Shotton Lane cycles rejoin the road way, but on the right side, this does not happen, anyone with a bit of sense can see at the railway bridge the raised pavement has become to narrow, however cyclists would have needed to cross the busy road some 100 yards back at the traffic light controlled crossing, would not take much to put a sign there, however the bike shop may complain, as it is on right just before railway bridge.

Of course common sense would say pedestrian crossing should be at the exists from railway station which would get rid of the problem, however it seems council planners don't have common sense any more.
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
Yesterday it was a nice day so took the route Shotton, Ellesmereport, Chester and back to Shotton. It was a mixture of road and side pavement and a mixture of signs. In some cases the blue oblong cycle sign, some round cycle signs, some segregated showing which side the foot and cycle users should take, some areas completely separate to motor traffic others motor traffic was alongside.

While on the enforced cycle route, I saw a bunch of riders riding 3 abreast on the road, with cars having to move to the oncoming lane to pass, when done as an event with warning signs OK, but no warning signs and there was really no reason why they were on the road, never mind 3 abreast, there was a designated cycle track where they could have been 3 abreast for much of the time without affecting motor traffic.

The most likely part of the trip where cycles could have had problems with pedestrians was on the tow path, and this section there is no way you can cycle away from walkers, as one got closer to Ellesmereport so the road crossings got worst, as start there were cycle, pedestrian, horse crossings with high buttons for house riders, then as the traffic got heavier the crossings lights went, still signs to show you were to cross with the blue round cycle signs to show you must use the track, but the crossing was not suitable for children. The last under the motorway on the roundabout was really bad, and signs to show where you needed to cross road to join tow path did not exist.

The surface of the tow path was hard but not suitable for racing cycles, you need a reasonable wide tyre but not requiring mountain bike tyres. It improved just before the return leg where I joined the old railway route, a wider track than better surface to the tow path. The final part can either go over the road on the new Welsh bridge then a second steep climb to Hawarden Bridge station or follow the road and cross duel carriage way at the Burnt out Gateway to Wales hotel which I selected. And one is directed to the cycle track on the right side of the road.

However in a few places that cycle track stops being on the raised pavement and one ends up riding contra flow to motorised traffic which is not really what I wanted, however one can see why, as the cycle track other side of road stops at railway bridge, but again lack of signs to show how one can go through carpark and side roads and join the combined pedestrian/cycle track past the leisure centre.

Because I have local knowledge I crossed main road and joined traffic, however the signs take you right into centre of Shotton where it is clearly not safe to ride on the raised section of pavement once you pass the bike shop and railway station. There are signs as one goes further that say in English only "no cycling on walkway" but lack of international signs or anything to define the walkway, it seems the coastal cycle route 5 keeps disappearing as one cycles towards Greenfield with some really odd directions.

From Queensferry to Shotton there is no end of cycle route signs, and a complete hopscotch of instructions depending on how you enter Shotton.

So in real terms the main problem is signs, we have contra flow in Queeensferry and Deeside industrial estate in the latter cyclists from the Wirral have to ignore the no entry sign and cycle wrong way down a one way street, I can see why, other route would include a dangerous roundabout, however you can't expect a cyclist to disobey one sign and obey others, where the cycle route is down a no entry or dead end road, there should be at least an except cycles sign.

Pavement means a hard surface, all major roads are paved, with a paver often called barbergreen after the firm who make them, so we can't have a sign saying no riding on pavement as the road is a pavement, all we can have is a no cycling on the walkway, but we still have to define it as a walkway, and signs saying rejoin main carriageway or enforced cycle way are pointless if there is not a suitable drop curb to allow the transfer.

Until the county council get their act together and actually put up signs, it's all a pointless argument, going into Shotton on the left from Queensferry at Shotton Lane cycles rejoin the road way, but on the right side, this does not happen, anyone with a bit of sense can see at the railway bridge the raised pavement has become to narrow, however cyclists would have needed to cross the busy road some 100 yards back at the traffic light controlled crossing, would not take much to put a sign there, however the bike shop may complain, as it is on right just before railway bridge.

Of course common sense would say pedestrian crossing should be at the exists from railway station which would get rid of the problem, however it seems council planners don't have common sense any more.

No cycling infrastructure is enforced or mandatory. You are entitled to decide whether you want to use it or not.
 
No cycling infrastructure is enforced or mandatory. You are entitled to decide whether you want to use it or not.
So you are saying this
3.gif
does not mean I must cycle on the route so indicated, I am sure if I did not obey it and joined main carriageway in some areas police would stop me, this sign
1_en.gif
shows which side is cycles and which is pedestrians, they are round so I thought must be obeyed in the same ways as
110.gif
these must be obeyed by all road users. what is the point in this
tr134.jpg
sign if the round ones mean the same?
 
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