People's Right to Drive

[fossyant]

Got a bit of a situation in my family at the moment, and what ever we say isn't being listened to.

My MIL is disabled due to heart attacks and a stroke. Her main carer, my FIL, has recently had two blood clots on each lung, and has been very ill, now diagnosed with COPD.

My FIL can't currently get about, he's out of breath, and struggles to get up. He's been told he needs oxygen 16 hours a day.

Since coming home (only a week) he's been badgering everyone to get his disabled parking pass sorted out and has been getting somewhat ratty with family.

He was in Hospital yesterday and his oxygen stats are 87ish (85 and below and your not going to make it, 95-100 is normal).

Why he needs the pass I don't know because he isn't fit to drive, but I can see, as soon as he gets it he'll be out in the car.

I've checked the NHS and COPD isn't notifiable to the DVLA unless he passes out - even the social worker has said it would be OK for him to drive with an oxygen mask on - WTF.

He won't listen, and no-one has been able to convince him he shouldn't be driving - struggling to get off a sofa is not fit.

My point, why do folk think they have a God given right to drive, even when clearly not fit ?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I guess it's because the person with the illness is the last to see how bad they are. BTW the disabled badge isn't just for the driver but for a disabled passenger who has problems walking any distance. As long as he is being carried in the car his badge (should he qualify) can be displayed.

 

[Piemaster]

I think theres more to it than just a 'right to drive'. It's an admittance by the person that their health has deteriorated or that their age has actually caught up with them and they are not as physically capable anymore as they think they are.

Driving is probably an emotive area as its a removal of their independance and a much bigger step than say, getting one of their children do a bit of shopping for them as they are going to the supermarket anyway.

I can see this being an issue with my family in the future. MIL drives, but not much (about 2000miles/year) and having been in a car with her I don't think she should be driving for too many years more. Getting her out of it i don't think will be too hard - she uses a bus pass, my wife helps with shopping and there isn't much else that a taxi wouldn't do.

My father is a whole different prospect, to paraphrase 'you can have my car keys when you prise them out of my cold, dead fingers'

 

[tyred]

Definitely a loss of independence thing.

I shudder to think what it will feel like to reach a stage where I can no longer do the things that I used to.

 

[fossyant]

I guess it's because the person with the illness is the last to see how bad they are. BTW the disabled badge isn't just for the driver but for a disabled passenger who has problems walking any distance. As long as he is being carried in the car his badge (should he qualify) can be displayed.

I know - MIL has one - but I can see what he's upto !

 

[fossyant]

He is one of these - you'll not stop me driving types. He's had bad eyesight for years, tends to 'hit' things on a regular basis - so far it's slow speed parking issues.

I just shudder with the thought he'll pass out in the car, and seriously hurt someone innocent. He even stubbornly jumped in his car, no more than a couple of days after getting out of hospital, just to drive it round locally (PS it's a Prius so needs a bit of use to charge it's battery - or so he says).

 

[Angelfishsolo]

You could well be right

I know - MIL has one - but I can see what he's upto !

 

[david1701]

He is one of these - you'll not stop me driving types. He's had bad eyesight for years, tends to 'hit' things on a regular basis - so far it's slow speed parking issues.

I just shudder with the thought he'll pass out in the car, and seriously hurt someone innocent. He even stubbornly jumped in his car, no more than a couple of days after getting out of hospital, just to drive it round locally (PS it's a Prius so needs a bit of use to charge it's battery - or so he says).

break the car. nothing permanent but disconnect something easy to disconnect (I was gonna say main earth but god knows how that works in a prius) I knew a guy with parkinsons who kept driving and it took him a full 10 minutes to get into the car - scared the shoot out of me because can he stop if someone runs into the road?

 

[Amanda P]

He's had bad eyesight for years, tends to 'hit' things on a regular basis - so far it's slow speed parking issues.

Maybe that's your solution. If he's demonstrably not fit to drive on the grounds of eyesight, his other health problems are irrelevant. Could you perhaps arrange somehow for some dodgy manouvring to be witnessed by a co-operative policeman who could then stop him and do the numberplate test? (Can a policeman do that?) Said policeman could then take any action he felt appropriate.

 

[upsidedown]

My neighbour's in a similar position with emphysema. Just been released from hospital and the first thing he did was get the car out of the garage. Haven't seen him since and the daily visit of a nurse and oxygen canister suppliers suggests he's very unwell; but i guess he feels he's still got the car available should he need it.

 

[fossyant]

Oh and because he is on oxygen, we all need to notify our insurance, if we take him anywhere with the cannister

Recons it won't cost us - my ar$e - insurance companies will jump on it !

 

[Falwheeler]

It's a very difficult problem especially in rural areas with poor public transport but I people coming into the Post Office that I work in, that can't see the card reader to put their number in, can't hear a word you say to them and have hands crippled with arthritis, they then leave and get into their car and drive off.

 

[Archie_tect]

Difficult, but probably disabling the car or taking away his car keys are the best options as any police involvement would be upsetting and demeaning to him. The less confrontational the better and it allows him to keep his dignity in the face of mounting concern which could spoil your relationship with the driver.

 

[quassleberry]

It's a very difficult problem especially in rural areas with poor public transport but I people coming into the Post Office that I work in, that can't see the card reader to put their number in, can't hear a word you say to them and have hands crippled with arthritis, they then leave and get into their car and drive off.

In the Post Office I work in - as you'll see in yours - the rapid decline of customers health. We have phoned the Police on numerous occasions when we have felt that to allow a customer to continue driving would be extremely dangerous for other road users, the Police have been understanding and they contact DVLA who in turn contact the driver and then if they are satisfied that that person is no longer capable of driving safely then they revoke the driving licence.
We have also phoned when we know that the person who has been refused a disc due to the documents not being right that they are still going to drive without disc, insurance or MOT. In this scenario the details are passed to the local Traffic Police who keep an eye out.

We do this because we are all agreed that if these drivers went on to cause a crash with injuries or fatalities we would be complicit in it and it could be one of our family/friends at the receiving end.

 

[asterix]

Had this problem with my father who had driven safely for 60 years. He started having problems with judging traffic speed in town and making decisions at junctions. He said he would stop driving and sell the car but did not. His problem was due to a brain tumour which went undetected by both York hospital and his GP. No one (apart from us) tried to stop him driving (as Archie-tect says, that is very difficult for family).

Without a doubt there should be refresher driving tests for ALL drivers - I would take one as when some years ago I passed my motor bike test I know it corrected the bad habits I had picked up.