Pet's soul....

[Mr Pig]

Or maybe pets can have soul ;0)

 

[Abitrary]

I strongly believe that pets have souls and we'll see them in heaven. That's the main reason I'm scared of dying and seeing my childhood family cat again.

He's probably made some friends up there and they're going to kick 10 tonnes of shoot out of me when I turn up.

 

[oxbob]

I strongly believe that pets have souls and we'll see them in heaven. That's the main reason I'm scared of dying and seeing my childhood family cat again.

He's probably made some friends up there and they're going to kick 10 tonnes of shoot out of me when I turn up.

Just for poking a crayola up its jacksee?

 

[Abitrary]

Just for poking a crayola up its jacksee?

er, no? Just for generally belittling it. Showing it up on front of the neighbourhood mice etc.

 

[Riding in Circles]

I don't see how you conclude that the donkey must have a soul because it was able to detect the presence of an angel. Balaam had a soul and he could not. Also, God made this donkey talk! So hardly a typical situation here.

My point was not that animals have no spiritual life or sensitivity, it was that I do not believe they have an eternal soul like man has.

The Bible is pretty clear that man is distinct in being created in God's image. Man is not like the animals, he is not just another animal and animals are not party to the redemption provided for fallen man. Whether animals have spirits is not the issue. Fallen angels are spiritual creatures but they too are not included in the redemptive plan provided for man. They cannot be redeemed. I'm not saying that the same rules apply to animals, just that you cannot extrapolate that animals share the same spiritual characteristics as man just because they exhibit similar behavior at times. Nothing in scripture suggests that that is true. Absolutely nothing. There are a lot of references to animals in scripture. Many about eating and sacrificing them!

It could be equally valid that animals souls are untainted and that all animals have eternal life from your description, in as much as man is the only creature that can sin intentionally, being created in Gods image is perhaps why we can do this because we can choose our destiny beyond that which nature decides for us to some degree.
Firstly, many unique and miraculous things happened to and around Christ to contribute to the validation of who he is. If you were to take all of these instances as indicators of normal practice then Christians should be emptying the hospitals with instant healing!

Also, there is no suggestion that Elijah and Moses were spirits. It says that the men were there, talking to Jesus. When you die, if you are redeemed, you will not be a ghost.

But most importantly of all, the Bible expressly forbids talking to the dead in the most severe terms (Deut. 18:10-12, Lev. 20:6 and 27). The King James words it rather well when it describes them as 'familiar spirits', which is exactly what most ghosts appear to be. You ask about believing the bible? Well it says these things are bad news and we are not to have anything to do with them. That settles it as far as I'm concerned.

I cannot see how you can make a discerning statement that Elijah and Moses were not spirits, at that time their physical bodies had long since ceased to exist.

As to consulting the dead, seeing something, feeling a presence etc... is significantly different from consulting the dead, also if it were not possible to consult the dead, why would it be forbidden, so ergo it must be possible as the bible says it is and the dead are not beyond reach. It does not say they do not exist or are unreachable. As far as being redeemed when you die, it is not quite as clear as that, it says the dead will rise from the grave to be judged, it seems you will "sleep" until that time. Although you may want to be aware that the Revelation of John is largely a plagiarism of the book of Enoch.

 

[Riding in Circles]

I strongly believe that pets have souls and we'll see them in heaven. That's the main reason I'm scared of dying and seeing my childhood family cat again.

He's probably made some friends up there and they're going to kick 10 tonnes of shoot out of me when I turn up.

What makes you think you will go to heaven?

 

[Abitrary]

What makes you think you will go to heaven?

dunno. I've always had a feeling that I'm, you know, 'special'. I feel like I have a guardian angel too. I just have a general feeling that there will be a lot of tears in heaven if I don't get in.

 

[Riding in Circles]

dunno. I've always had a feeling that I'm, you know, 'special'. I feel like I have a guardian angel too. I just have a general feeling that there will be a lot of tears in heaven if I don't get in.

You are certainly "special".

 

[Abitrary]

You are certainly "special".

special enough to understand my destiny.

 

[Andy in Sig]

I don't see how you conclude that the donkey must have a soul because it was able to detect the presence of an angel. Balaam had a soul and he could not. Also, God made this donkey talk! So hardly a typical situation here.

My point was not that animals have no spiritual life or sensitivity, it was that I do not believe they have an eternal soul like man has.

The Bible is pretty clear that man is distinct in being created in God's image. Man is not like the animals, he is not just another animal and animals are not party to the redemption provided for fallen man. Whether animals have spirits is not the issue. Fallen angels are spiritual creatures but they too are not included in the redemptive plan provided for man. They cannot be redeemed. I'm not saying that the same rules apply to animals, just that you cannot extrapolate that animals share the same spiritual characteristics as man just because they exhibit similar behavior at times. Nothing in scripture suggests that that is true. Absolutely nothing. There are a lot of references to animals in scripture. Many about eating and sacrificing them!



Firstly, many unique and miraculous things happened to and around Christ to contribute to the validation of who he is. If you were to take all of these instances as indicators of normal practice then Christians should be emptying the hospitals with instant healing!

Also, there is no suggestion that Elijah and Moses were spirits. It says that the men were there, talking to Jesus. When you die, if you are redeemed, you will not be a ghost.

But most importantly of all, the Bible expressly forbids talking to the dead in the most severe terms (Deut. 18:10-12, Lev. 20:6 and 27). The King James words it rather well when it describes them as 'familiar spirits', which is exactly what most ghosts appear to be. You ask about believing the bible? Well it says these things are bad news and we are not to have anything to do with them. That settles it as far as I'm concerned.

But the old testament is just the war diaries of some blokes wandering around the desert in the Middle East. What's that got to do with whether or not people should attempt to communicate directly with spirits?

 

[PBancroft]

Shoes have soles.

Yeah, OK... too much Red Dwarf this weekend.

In all honesty, I like the idea of a God and an afterlife. Its appealing. However I don't believe. As for souls? Yes... in a way we do carry on after our deaths. People remember us, and all the good we do (or the bad) and that is what gives our lives purpose. People who love us and need to find comfort after our passing will need to know we are safe and in a way we are - what we have done with our lives stays done.

I certainly don't think that there is anyway of coming back after death. I don't think there is any objective evidence of anything to come back from - to the contrary in fact.

Far from being tragic, I find this quite uplifting. It gives a reason to be the kind of person you believe you should be, and not hold faith in other people's biased views of right and wrong or in a centuries old badly translated text. Live your life, and make sure those you love know that you love them - you don't know when they, or you, might be gone.

 

[Mr Pig]

It could be equally valid that animals souls are untainted and that all animals have eternal life

No it couldn't. You are looking for what you want to be true rather than accepting what the Bible actually says.

Thanks to Adam and Eve, the whole of creation is corrupt and decaying. Nothing in the world is the way it was when it was created. We see run-down, damaged shadow of the perfect earth God built for us. There is no part of it that is 'untainted'. This is fundamental stuff.

The whole purpose of the earth, and indeed the universe, was to provide us with a place to live! A place for us to live fully independently yet in full communion with God. There is no indication that animals have value over and above any other part of creation. They are part of the scenery.

Human beings are different to all other created creatures. You might not like this idea but it's what the Bible teaches from cover to cover.

I cannot see how you can make a discerning statement that Elijah and Moses were not spirits

There is nothing in any of the accounts of the incident to suggest they were. Christ is the link, or transform, between the world we see and touch and the realm unseen (John. 1: 1-14). Consider the time when He walked into the upper room after His resurrection. He was solid, flesh and bone, yet he walked straight into a locked room. He actually said "I am not a ghost" and encouraged the disciples to touch him.

When you die you will not be a ghost. You will have a new body, like the resurrection body of Christ.

also if it were not possible to consult the dead, why would it be forbidden

That is circular reasoning. The passages concerned typically also speak of not worshiping other gods. Does this mean that there must be other gods? No. It means that other gods are false gods which is why we are to stay away from them.

It does not say they do not exist or are unreachable

Yes it does (Luke. 16: 16-31). There is a "great gulf fixed". This is not a parable, the characters in parables do not have names. Once you die, you don't get to come back to say hi.

Although you may want to be aware that the Revelation of John is largely a plagiarism of the book of Enoch.

I believe that the Bible is inspired by God from cover to cover. I am aware of many attempts to undermine its authority from many quarters but it stands up. Being a Christian means that the Word of God stands in judgment over us, we do not stand in judgment over it.

 

[Mr Pig]

Far from being tragic, I find this quite uplifting.

Interestingly, that's exactly how I thought and felt before I became a Christian! I was totally happy about the idea that once you died that was it, there was no spiritual realm or any of that nonsense, what you see is what there is. I really liked thinking that way!

For me, I had no choice but to accept Christ as I came to realize that by far the most logical explanation for everything I've ever known is that the explanation presented by The Bible is true. Not an easy shift to make, being a Christian is never easy, but the more I found out and experienced the more convinced I became that the only explanation for this hypothesis was that it was true.

But I don't look down on where you are today. That's exactly where I was!

 

[PBancroft]

For me, I had no choice but to accept Christ as I came to realize that by far the most logical explanation for everything I've ever known is that the explanation presented by The Bible is true.

In what way logical?

 

[puddleglum]

Purely out of interest, Mr Pig, do you subscribe to any particular denomination or church?