Pet's soul....

[Riding in Circles]

No it couldn't. You are looking for what you want to be true rather than accepting what the Bible actually says.

Thanks to Adam and Eve, the whole of creation is corrupt and decaying. Nothing in the world is the way it was when it was created. We see run-down, damaged shadow of the perfect earth God built for us. There is no part of it that is 'untainted'. This is fundamental stuff.

The whole purpose of the earth, and indeed the universe, was to provide us with a place to live! A place for us to live fully independently yet in full communion with God. There is no indication that animals have value over and above any other part of creation. They are part of the scenery.

Human beings are different to all other created creatures. You might not like this idea but it's what the Bible teaches from cover to cover.



There is nothing in any of the accounts of the incident to suggest they were. Christ is the link, or transform, between the world we see and touch and the realm unseen (John. 1: 1-14). Consider the time when He walked into the upper room after His resurrection. He was solid, flesh and bone, yet he walked straight into a locked room. He actually said "I am not a ghost" and encouraged the disciples to touch him.

When you die you will not be a ghost. You will have a new body, like the resurrection body of Christ.



That is circular reasoning. The passages concerned typically also speak of not worshiping other gods. Does this mean that there must be other gods? No. It means that other gods are false gods which is why we are to stay away from them.



Yes it does (Luke. 16: 16-31). There is a "great gulf fixed". This is not a parable, the characters in parables do not have names. Once you die, you don't get to come back to say hi.



I believe that the Bible is inspired by God from cover to cover. I am aware of many attempts to undermine its authority from many quarters but it stands up. Being a Christian means that the Word of God stands in judgment over us, we do not stand in judgment over it.

So you can only be a christian if you believe every last word of the bible without question? As for seeing what I want to see, you seem adept at selective allegory regarding the bible, I see you are still going for the instant new body thing as well rather than the sleep until judgement, regardless of what you may claim your faith has been fashioned by the RC and your bible has been altered to suit them, the rest of it is available if you want it but it looks like you haven't read the bits you have got now.

 

[Riding in Circles]

Every living thing has a soul, its the spark of life that gives them the will to live.

Nothing created can ever be destroyed, it still exists in some form or another. Just because you cant see it, dose not mean its not there.

Maybe it exists in the way it has affected the world, i.e. rather than ghosts, it may be that the earth has "memories", so we may catch a glimpse of a memory that is not exclusively our own and interpret it as a ghost while trying to rationalise it. Much like the feeling you sometimes get in an old house that something bad happened there once.

 

[Mr Pig]

In what way logical?

I tried to find holes in it, things that would prove it was a fable, fairy story or lie. The harder I looked the more I found that suggested the exact opposite. It stacks up.

I'm a very logical and analytical person and I like being that way. If the Bible didn't tie up there is no way I would take any notice of it. I would consider it as much foolishness as so many other futile religions. But it's different. It is astonishingly clever in its construction. It is designed to be a self-validating message system that can be explained in no other way other than it has an extra terrestrial origin. It's the most astonishing object on the earth at the present time.

If you think about, if God is going to post a message to humans it is logical to assume that he is going to it in a form we can readily absorb and validate. He made our eyes and brain and He's in a position to do that, and it's exactly what He's done. For those who want to find the truth, rather than just find support for what we choose to believe, a message from God is going to make sense.

In some ways it's not hard and in others it's murder! ;0) Do not in any way try to switch off your brain and look for things that make you feel good or happy. Being dismantled by the Word of God is a car crash experience, or rather it can be. All you have to do is be willing and open to what God will specifically want to say to you. He knows what you think, believe and are.

You simply ask him to reveal Himself to you. Be totally honest and tell Him that you do not believe He is there! ;0) But that if He is there that you want to know the truth about Him.

I can think of things that blew me away when I first discovered them, like the chronology of human history given to Daniel, but I believe that God will deal with each of us as individuals. He knows what you need to see and will take you on your own journey.

But absolutely to not bin your rational mind. If you read something that seems illogical and contradicts what you think you know, fight with it. Assume that the Bible is true, says what it means, means what it says and consider the implications. If you can't tie it up at that time, set it aside and move on. God will come back to it! ;0)

I remember one instance when I first became a Christian. I was basically asking God to guide my Bible reading and I'd read loads of stuff that seemed very random to me. Didn't think I was really moving anywhere fast.

One night as I sat at my desk something happened. From out of all of the passages I'd read threads, words, ideas and meaning all suddenly came together in an instant. To describe it like that sounds like a normal learning pattern but it wasn't. It was not normal. I was in shock! I shivered in the realization that I was not alone in the room. That something or someone was interfering with the fabric of my life.

Twenty years on I know that the reality of God is a fact. I can't explain that but I know that it pleases God to grant anyone who wants to know him the same experience. Just don't check your brain out, you will need it! ;0)

PS. If you do decide to take on the Bible I recommend you use The King James or 'Authorized' translation. I think it's by far the strongest English translation ever done.

 

[Mr Pig]

do you subscribe to any particular denomination or church?

No. Churches are made up of people. People are sinful and make mistakes. I've yet to see a church that wasn't wrong about some aspect of what they practice and I know that being human I too will be wrong about things I do and believe.

The important thing is that the fundamentals about who and what Christ is are right. I'm not saying that nothing else is important but if you get that wrong then the game's over.

 

[Mr Pig]

So you can only be a christian if you believe every last word of the bible without question?

That's eh...kind of what Christianity is?

Although not without question. It is right to question, reason, and search.

However, the Bible itself says that it is the very Word of God in its entirety. If you start dismissing bits you don't like then of what use is it? It's either the Word of God or it isn't. Who are we to cherry pick which parts of what God has said we will accept or reject. Are we to stand in judgment over God? Where then is your authority? Is He Lord of you or are you lord of yourself?

 

[Mr Pig]

The Bible says that God created time, as part of creation. Why assume that time therefore continues after you're dead and not part of it any more?

I think that trips up a lot of people. Eternity is not a very Long time. Rather it is outside of time altogether. Christ is Alpha and Omega. He was not just there at the beginning and will be there at the end. He is present at all points in time!

How can the human mind conceive a form of life that is not subject to the constraints of time? Forget it. In fact the Bible itself says that. Don't bother trying to imagine heaven, your mind cannot even conceive it! (1 Cor. 2:9)

 

[Radius]

How can the human mind conceive a form of life that is not subject to the constraints of time? Forget it. In fact the Bible itself says that. Don't bother trying to imagine heaven, your mind cannot even conceive it! (1 Cor. 2:9)

Not meaning to be rude, but isn't that a rather convenient escape from the endeavour to discover ultimate truth?

And what happens when we reach heaven, assuming that we do, if it is there before us yet we cannot concieve it, does that not create an unavoidable conundrum?

 

[MichaelM]

I seem to remember this was done about 12 months back on the intelligent design thread. Mr Pig claimed he'd post evidence in support of the "theory" (it's not a theory), but seemed to dissapear for a while instead.

Assume that the Bible is true, says what it means, means what it says and consider the implications.

I watched a programme the other week called Did Darwin kill God? It was presented by a priest who was quite open to the contradictions in the bible. It was hardly a bible that says what it means, means what it says.

Mr Pig did you ever post evidence by the way?

 

[buggi]

As to consulting the dead, seeing something, feeling a presence etc... is significantly different from consulting the dead, also if it were not possible to consult the dead, why would it be forbidden, so ergo it must be possible as the bible says it is and the dead are not beyond reach. It does not say they do not exist or are unreachable. As far as being redeemed when you die, it is not quite as clear as that, it says the dead will rise from the grave to be judged, it seems you will "sleep" until that time. Although you may want to be aware that the Revelation of John is largely a plagiarism of the book of Enoch.

seeing something and feeling a presence IS different to consulting the dead. but you are not supposed to mistake these for dead people/animals that you once knew, but understand that they are "familiar spirits" (as described earlier). The mistake (or sin if you like) would be to then believe they are your beloved dead ones and try to contact them. As for "the dead will rise from the grave to be judged" that is correct also, they will not rise until judgement day so then why would you believe they are in your presence???

I'm not a devout Christian, but i can't understand why people choose to believe the bits they want to. Either you take the bible as it is, or don't take it at all. And if you don't take it at all, then quite simply humans don't have souls. if you believe they do, then you must believe in God and i would do as the bible says and leave all the other stuff well alone, because i think if there is a God, he would be a pretty tough cookie to crack and i don't think he'd take too kindly to me talking to demons. Personally, i'd rather leave all this "talking to the other side" well alone, just in case.

 

[Auntie Helen]

I'm with User on this one (and actually have a couple of degrees in Biblical Studies/Greek & Hebrew literature, for what it's worth).

Context is so important, as is form of writing etc. And there are lots of mistakes in the Bible but for most people they don't matter (or they are ignored or glossed over).

 

[Crackle]

I wonder what Snapper will make of her thread when she reads it.

Mr. Pig I can't read you're stuff without a mixture of laughter, anger, despair and sheer outraged indignation. It reads in the manner of the converted. As someone brought up a practising Catholic, I've long ago become jaded and cynical and yet despite that religion still has a hold on me as I was reminded at a recent funeral. Strangley at such times a faith is a comfort, something to hold onto when other foundations have slipped away. Why, because it requires no foundation, no truth, it just is.

However step away and question it and it ceases to be logical as you claim. Every part of the bible contradicts another as Mr. paul says it requires you to read your history and put it's writing in context. Frankly it needs an update. Re-writing to reflect the world we live in now, then it might just be relevant enough for people to connect again.

Do I believe in God; no. Not as some single entity, the whole idea of some omnipresent being is farcical, however we have enough evidence around us to suggest that nature posesses far greater mystery and capacity than we yet understand.

Why should an animal not have a soul, as if somehow, we mankind deserve it more, when perhaps we deserve it less. Why should we be able to explain away experiences such as Snappers in terms of demons or psychological and physical phenomena and so what if we do, does it make it less real, less relevant. In fact it doesn't, it shows we have been moved and affected by the mutual bond we have created with someone/something and that that has had a profound effect on us which will affect our view of things in the future and for the rest of our lives, in Snappers case in a positive way: That's good and perhaps that's all we need it to mean.

 

[Mr Pig]

isn't that a rather convenient escape from the endeavor to discover ultimate truth? And what happens when we reach heaven, assuming that we do?

If there is a God and He lives in a realm other than this one how could we possibly understand that fully? But it's not an excuse to stop wondering. Men across the world wonder about the nature of the universe, time and space.

I don't know what heaven will be like. I believe we will be recognizable and recognizably human. We will be in God's presence uninterrupted and it will be good! It will be real and we will do things, live and use the fullness of who we have become though our lives here. What form these things will take I have no idea.

As someone brought up a practicing Catholic, I've long ago become jaded and cynical and yet despite that religion still has a hold on me

It was always a boast of the Roman Catholic Church that if you gave them a child until they were seven, I think it was, they would hold them for life. Thankfully it's not true. I know many people who've escaped! ;0) But it's not easy. It's a powerful system and can do a lot of damage.

Frankly it needs an update. Re-writing to reflect the world we live in now, then it might just be relevant enough for people to connect again

Sadly, you are likely to get your wish. The world is moving towards terrible days that will seem like a bright future to most of the people on earth. The history of the world is unfolding exactly as this old outdated book said they would. God hasn't changed, nor has His word. People just think they now know better.

 

[peanut]

When I lost Penny many years ago(black cat)I kept seeing a small black shadow moving in my pheriferal vision. You know just like you see a pet come round a doorway

i don't really believe in all this but there are so many unexplained things that have happened to me that I'm keeping an open mind.

I am convinced that someone is looking after me. I like to think its my late Mum but someone or something has saved my life more times than I can remember.

 

[peanut]

The Bible is made up of all kinds of writings. Letters to specific people or groups, songs, stories etc.

Where people slip up is when they take it out of context. So it's not really about taking it all literally, but about understanding what was said, how it was said, to who it was said and why.

yes it is very much like the Sufi teaching stories and stories of all the tribes of the world that were passed down over centuries.

On a simple level they are often a nice entertaining story but on a much deeper level they transcend race, religion and any other factor that seperates man from man. They should prove timeless and generally whilst not a guide as such, point the way to a certain way of life and understanding

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Grief, loss and memory do funny things to your mind. Not everything we 'see' is materially real - people can honestly think that they are being abducted by aliens because of the experience of states of consciousness between sleep and waking. We can be convinced that a person half-glimpsed in the street is an old friend because our brains don't like gaps and fill them in for us. We can see God in sunlight and dehydration. And so on. If you want experiences like this to have meaning, it's probably better to think of what the experience means to you rather than thinking it 'proves' anything beyond that or says anything definitive about the nature of the universe. Our brains do not always work in ways that are immediately obvious to us. There are quantum processes going on there. And I am sorry to people who 'believe' things here, but I've yet to come across anything that suggests otherwise - and accounts written down by believers are merely post-hoc rationalisations of such things or out and out myth--making. They are not independent evidence.