Pinarello Dogma F12 vs. Lapierre Aircode SL700 Ultimate

OP
Colin Grigson

Colin Grigson

Manager of The Month
Location
Slovakia
Discs may work out a better option with carbon rims. Alloy rims, then I have no braking issues in the wet with caliper brakes.

Just that rim wear may look a mess on carbon after a while. If looking to spend £8k I wouldn't want Ultegra.

Canyon ?
The owner of the LBS (and my friend) advised the opposite ... bearing in mind my feeble 3w/kg I don’t think I require anything more - I have to draw a line somewhere. He suggested that Dura-ace Di2 (whilst perfect) is only a matter of grams less than Ultegra and it was one area I could make a saving with no discernible (to me) reduction in performance. I want Shimano having had experience of Sram and it must be electronic - that’s the future IMO.
As to your suggestion of a ‘Canyon’ .... I’m struggling with the choice I already have without introducing another manufacturer to the process :laugh: ... so thank you but I’ll stick with the choice I have. I appreciate your sentiments though :becool:
 
OP
Colin Grigson

Colin Grigson

Manager of The Month
Location
Slovakia
Discs are rather agricultural in look, but loads of modern road bikes are TBH - big fat tubes, and it's the way the market is going. My Guide RS's calipers on my MTB are 'tiny' but are incredible at stopping, but MTB's need that power and, importantly, modulation.

Have you thought about buying frame then components. If your budget is £8k, I'd look at a Colnago and non-electronic Super Record/Record, then spec some good alloy wheels, for a super all round bike. You'll drop £3.5k on the frame, £1.5k-£2k on groupset, £500 on good light alloy wheels, then the rest on bling.
Funnily enough I looked at a frameset and a custom build but it was even more expensive and for equipment that I don’t really need. My friend suggested an ‘off the shelf’ (albeit costly) complete bike, as only small compromises have to be made for considerable savings. :wacko:
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
Thanks Drago, the mediocrity (relatively speaking) is slightly putting me off the Lapierre ... I defy even the most cynical person to describe the F12 as mediocre - forget the cost for a moment ... that’s a different kettle of fish
You may find the way it rides mediocre - chrome don't get you home, as the old saying goes. Some of the most exotic hypercars are super, mega quick but are really quite tragic to pilot, and so it can be with bicycles.

Im presuming you're after the best riding bike for your dollar? If your're after the one with the blingest blagging rights then you don't need our help. It might be beneficial to decide exactly what your priority is, because from that which you have said thus far I'm not even sure you know yourself.
 
OP
Colin Grigson

Colin Grigson

Manager of The Month
Location
Slovakia
You may find the way it rides mediocre - chrome don't get you home, as the old saying goes. Some of the most exotic hypercars are super, mega quick but are really quite tragic to pilot, and so it can be with bicycles.

Im presuming you're after the best riding bike for your dollar? If your're after the one with the blingest blagging rights then you don't need our help. It might be beneficial to decide exactly what your priority is, because from that which you have said thus far I'm not even sure you know yourself.
I’m certainly not after the ‘blingest’, nor am I after ‘bragging’ rights ... my current bike is an original (old) 65.1 Dogma which I’m hoping to replace with a brand new bike. I was merely casting for opinions from other experienced cyclists. I suppose if any criticism should be levelled at me it’s due to my uncertainty with regards €/tangible benefit - I am after reassurance that spending a good sum isn’t complete lunacy :becool:
 

Tripster

Senior Member
Location
North West
You don’t need reassurance, only from the people it effects, your family mostly. Here I find you will get really helpful comments ranging to the useless comments rather than those people just refraining from having a go and reading another thread. Most of the replies to you are very good and ultimately it’s which bike you really want and which sits best with you and family.
From recent personal experience, I have a Whyte 905 which is 3 years old and used half as much as it should be. I work away so limited opportunities to ride and with current job climate I don’t see me changing that anytime soon. But I wanted a new bike for the roads again and although the most I have ever spent on one my wife was fully supportive and as happy as me. Thus I took all recommendations from here and good advice, ignored the knobs and bought the bike I wanted that will hopefully last me into retirement 👍
 

si_c

Veteran
Location
Wirral
I’m certainly not after the ‘blingest’, nor am I after ‘bragging’ rights ... my current bike is an original (old) 65.1 Dogma which I’m hoping to replace with a brand new bike. I was merely casting for opinions from other experienced cyclists. I suppose if any criticism should be levelled at me it’s due to my uncertainty with regards €/tangible benefit - I am after reassurance that spending a good sum isn’t complete lunacy :becool:
I'd almost work on the assumption that if your current dogma fits you then the new one will too. In some ways it's the easier bike to buy as you know the fit will be good after having had one already for so long. The LaPierre is a bit more of an unknown quantity - I'd want to be sure that what I was riding was a good fit for me after spending that much money.

I think you should probably go for the Pinarello - the only real objection to it that you've had is disc brakes and price, but once you've ridden the discs you'll likely change your mind about that anyway. Which just leaves price.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
30 years ago, I bought the best of the best - I was still living with parents, good job. My training bike was Ultegra and a 'notch down' frameset from the top - i.e. 653 and 'off the peg - still handbuilt, but literally a stock item.

Best bike - fancied a Colnago Master, but didn't want to put Japanese kit on it - still doesn't work for me Italian frames need Campag.

So, I had a frame built for me locally in the same Columbus tubing that Colnago used. That way it's a British frame with Shimano - cured my OCD. Shimano had just released 8 speed - just. I had to have it, and it was Dura Ace. I also had a completely custom colour scheme.

Must say I've never regretted it. The Dura Ace components are still as sweet as the day I got them, but they weren't built for extra weight, the cost went into build quality - e.g. finishing, pivots, bearings, bearing surfaces (the headset race is titanium surfaced).

Personally, if you are dropping that much, I'd just stump up the extra for the better groupset.
 

Ridgeway

Senior Member
To me the Lapierre is a really nice bike, amazing spec and looks great.

The Pinarello however is a true super bike, a Ferrari of our beloved cycling. But i'm not mad keen on those hoops.....

I took the plunge on a new Pinarello K10 last summer, it's no F12 but i love it and love riding it. There's something special to me at least about being able to ride such a bike, the feel of getting it ready for a sortie, whizzing down a nice descent and just taking advantage of it's aero benefits. I often get compliments on it if i ride with people, usually "look at that FB struggling to get up that hill on his nice bike" or similar words, it has caused me to aim to improve my cycling so i can live up to the brands credentials.

I was lucky enough to fit a small sized frame in an odd colour that had been hanging around the shop for 18 months so some how it was a one off opportunity, i just made the fatal mistake of taking it out for a test ride and the deal was done:ohmy:

I think you know you want the Pinarello but just need convincing what to do with the cash you've saved when buying it at such a bargain price which i truly belief that price is, never seen an F12 that low so far although most have come with better wheels (sorry did i mention that you need to change them:laugh:)

Ask Mr friendly LBS to do a deal with the F12 and swap out the hoops, that's my suggestion.
 
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OP
Colin Grigson

Colin Grigson

Manager of The Month
Location
Slovakia
30 years ago, I bought the best of the best - I was still living with parents, good job. My training bike was Ultegra and a 'notch down' frameset from the top - i.e. 653 and 'off the peg - still handbuilt, but literally a stock item.

Best bike - fancied a Colnago Master, but didn't want to put Japanese kit on it - still doesn't work for me Italian frames need Campag.

So, I had a frame built for me locally in the same Columbus tubing that Colnago used. That way it's a British frame with Shimano - cured my OCD. Shimano had just released 8 speed - just. I had to have it, and it was Dura Ace. I also had a completely custom colour scheme.

Must say I've never regretted it. The Dura Ace components are still as sweet as the day I got them, but they weren't built for extra weight, the cost went into build quality - e.g. finishing, pivots, bearings, bearing surfaces (the headset race is titanium surfaced).

Personally, if you are dropping that much, I'd just stump up the extra for the better groupset.
Thank you fossyant ... you’ve raised some valid points - I may (after all) reconsider a custom built Pinarello ... ‘in for a penny, in for a pound’. I appreciate my friend trying to save me some money but I may be better to bite the bullet have it with the best group set etc ... and enjoy it long after the price is forgotten ... the other benefit would be that I can choose the frame colour too .... here comes another decision :stop:
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Thank you fossyant ... you’ve raised some valid points - I may (after all) reconsider a custom built Pinarello ... ‘in for a penny, in for a pound’. I appreciate my friend trying to save me some money but I may be better to bite the bullet have it with the best group set etc ... and enjoy it long after the price is forgotten ... the other benefit would be that I can choose the frame colour too .... here comes another decision :stop:
If you also think about how long you'll likely keep it, it's a bargain. I'm not one to change bikes ! Do it. If budget is getting tight, I'd go for a cheaper wheelset - although not a budget set - i.e. drop from top end carbon to top end alloy.
 
OP
Colin Grigson

Colin Grigson

Manager of The Month
Location
Slovakia
To me the Lapierre is a really nice bike, amazing spec and looks great.

The Pinarello however is a true super bike, a Ferrari of our beloved cycling. But i'm not mad keen on those hoops.....

I took the plunge on a new Pinarello K10 last summer, it's no F12 but i love it and love riding it. There's something special to me at least about being able to ride such a bike, the feel of getting it ready for a sortie, whizzing down a nice decent and just taking advantage of it's aero benefits. I often get compliments on it if i ride with people, usually "look at that FB struggling to get up that hill on his nice bike" or similar words, it has caused me to aim to improve my cycling so i can live up to the brands credentials.

I was lucky enough to fit a small sized frame in an odd colour that had been hanging around the shop for 18 months so some how it was a one off opportunity, i just made the fatal mistake of taking it out for a test ride and the deal was done:ohmy:

I think you know you want the Pinarello but just need convincing what to do with the cash you've saved when buying it at such a bargain price which i truly belief that price is, never seen an F12 that low so far although most have come with better wheels (sorry did i mention that you need to change them:laugh:)

Ask Mr friendly LBS to do a deal with the F12 and swap out the hoops, that's my suggestion.
Thank you Ridgeway - I was hoping you’d post your experience of ownership .... I noted your avatar on one of my first visits to this site and loved your recounting of your first few club rides there in La Suisse :becool:.
I agree, deep down I think it’ll be the Pinarello in the end ... having had one and experienced that ‘feel’ I‘m not sure I want to change ... if everyone had said ‘you’ll not notice anything different with the Lapierre‘ I may have considered it more strongly , however, that appears not to be the case. You and I must be the only people that think the price is OK :notworthy: ... if I have one custom built with ‘my way’ (the paint customisation) my friend has warned it would be €11K - €13K - mind boggling !
I’ll update this thread once the decision is cast in stone ....
 

Ridgeway

Senior Member
I must admit that i like my "things" to match and i guess i've spent a small fortune on finding orange accented clothing to match the bike so buying a bike the right colour to start with would have probably been cheaper:laugh: even a custom Pino paint job.

There's some lovely off the peg colour schemes in the brochure, for me the black with red is really nice.

Good luck and enjoy it when it arrives.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
London
Discs are rather agricultural in look, but loads of modern road bikes are TBH - big fat tubes, and it's the way the market is going.
I agree with that statement, because it's factually correct. What I don't agree with is that just because the bike industry has decided we should be riding ugly ungainly looking bikes, that we should accept it and go out and buy them even though many are just not very pleasing on the eye.
This, more than anything, is why I am sticking with classic steel, mostly of the lightweight lugged variety. OK, modern carbon really is a bit lighter, and it can be more aero, and therefore slightly quicker if going fast is your thing - but i just find them totally soulless.
 
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