Project M6L to M6R on a budget

[yoho oy]

I am in a process of acquiring cheap* ( ) brand new OEM rack for a Brompton. * When I say cheap, it is not at £116+ for full bells and whistles kit.The reason going that route is that I like M6L as is and will use rack just once in a while (hopefully the current pandemic will end sometimes in a near future and we will be able to travel everywhere without any restrictions), but the prices keep going up and up for everything brompton, so I thought I might be just will get it now.

So the problem is that it does not include any fittings whatsoever. No mudguard, no screws, no bungee cord. When I add missing necessary bits it still comes under £116. I mean really necessary. For example do I neat seat bung when there is already one installed in M6L? So basically I am looking to add screws, washers, nuts and mudguard. I am trying to figure out how many screws will I need. Can someone with a rack or rack mounting experience help me out?

Is the part that mounts on top, trough brake part is good as it is? As I understand basically I need 3 screws- one for mudguard, and two to mount the stays? 5 washers and 3 nuts? More complicated part is wheels. Original Brompton wheels are quite poor - too small and rolling experience is not great. EZ wheels are just way to expensive. I am thinking to go either with skating wheels https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/kids-...SurfacesForGoogle&utm_content=8515416-2463128 or castor wheels https://www.rosscastors.co.uk/60mm-...erm=4587437391824112&utm_content=All Products . So I guess wheel mounting bits will depend on the diameter of the wheels.

 

[Tenkaykev]

https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompt...-set-black.html?search_query=Rack&results=122
The kit comes with everything including new mudguard, bungees, nuts and bolts etc. it’s the one I fitted to one of my Brommies.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Re reading your post I may have misunderstood. When you said OEM I took it to be the original Brompton component. I take it you’re wanting one of the cheaper, compatible ones?

 

[TheDoctor]

Personally, I'd go with a mounting block and a Brompton bag of some sort. Since I bought a T-Bag I haven't used the rack once.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Personally, I'd go with a mounting block and a Brompton bag of some sort. Since I bought a T-Bag I haven't used the rack once.

+1 for this. Since fitting the rack to Mrs Tenkaykev's brommie it's only been used for carrying stuff one or twice, the basket bag is far more of an asset, especially when used in shopping cart mode. It does make rolling easier, at the expense of being heavier and more awkward to fold. ( the "swing under" and " swing open " are adversely affected by the extra weight.

 

[12boy]

I go for the belt and braces approach....a block mounted bag for the front and another off the saddle for light things. On days when there is a light load the saddle bag is more aero, especially in stout headwinds. When I put 10-15 lbs in the front it really improves the ride on bumpy pavement though.

 

[berlinonaut]

I'd say the rack is a matter of taste. Surely, travelling with a front bag alone is common and possible (and preferable as well). If that's not enough space a saddle-bag may accomplish it. But depending from your travels a rack may be useful as well, either if you need even more luggage (and prefer i.e. a backpack on the rack over a trailer) or simply because the folded bike rolls better. I do have the luxury of having the choice and use all four possibilities regularly, depending from my actual needs.
On the other hand: If the target is once more being cheap @yoho oy may possibly end up with a solution that is cheap in the sense of poor. I understand if money is an issue but on the other hand going a "custom" way not only replaces money with time and creativity but also includes risks that one avoids when spending a little more and going down the comfortable factory route. The more if - like the OP - one seems to be massively overfocussed on "cheap" and a bit over-selfconfident regarding judiging on certain solutions or aspects like i.e. the Brompton roller wheels vs. skater wheels, obviously w/o any deeper knowledge, neither regarding the factory wheels on a racked Brompton nor regarding the possible issues that may arise from skater wheels. But everyone to his own taste - learning from own experiences is the most intensive way to learn though often the most expensive one as well.

 

[yoho oy]

Thanks for comments and ideas!

Well, I have to admit, that buying a rack was a bit FOMO moment rather than actual need. On regular use I find that simple reflective backpack is pretty much enough for me. Front rack is nice, but Brompton bags are really expensive. I do get the point that Brompton made something unique and are trying to cash in, but I am not the person who would buy £40 bicycle bell, just because it is for a Brompton. Usually my bags don't last much, be it backpacks, luggage or shoulder bags. I would say most of them last about a year. After a year something wears out (it depends on a bag I use)- a ziper, wheel, handle, shoulder strap or bag just gets too dirty... I just don't want to spend more than £100 for something that would last me a year. Perhaps a lot of people here would jump in commenting on Brompton bag quality, longevity etc, but seriously, look around on ebay, gumtree or some other websites for used Brompton bags. You will realize that it is just a bag, might be a little bit better material, but at the end of the day they wear out. I seen plenty pictures of used Brompton bags that look like they came from a dumpster and I don't mean they were worn out to the bits. I mean that there is a difference when professional photographer takes a picture or some of the product pictures are not even pictures, but computer generated images. Amateur pictures reveal all the glory, or lack of it for the product after slight use.

So in order to save on weight I actually removed front block and pump. Most of the time if something would happen to a bike, I would just take a bus or use tube.

In case anyone wonder, I bought this type of a rack https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompton-rear-carrier-bits/881-brompton-rear-carrier-platform.html . So it is OEM, rather than after-market. Oh boy, I could swear it was £60 yesterday!!! But I bought it even cheaper than that. Sure, £117 kit option is nicer, but buying M6R in first place is even easier way . Unfortunately when I was ordering the bike, M6R were out of stock and only M3R were in stock. I feel I made better choice by buying 6 gear option as now I can do all uphills near me while sitting in a saddle. As for missing parts I would say that the biggest issue is a proper mudguard and fittings to attach the rack to the bike and mudguard. The way I would use the rack is just for one backpack that would rest on a rack and saddle/seatpost, rather than many bags in front/back, and on shoulders. I think having heavy backpack resting on a rack rather than my shoulders for the prolonged time is worth the money. As for missing eazy wheels... When I think more about it, they are not the issue, as I would not use the rack on daily basis and probably could manage without rolling it folded when the rack is mounted.

Like I said, it was FOMO purchase, since the rack kit was going in price from £80, to £85 and now is at £117.

In case someone is in similar situation like me, looks like I found all necessary info here: https://www.perennialcycle.com/media/wysiwyg/files/Brompton_Rack_Datasheet.pdf Just a few screws, nuts and washers are essential for my usage scenario.

 

[Kell]

You can buy just the frame for the front block and then attach the bag of your choice to that. Some people have Trankensteined lots of other methods too.

I prefer a rucksack for my use - but realise that that is a personal choice. When I use my Brompton, it's in full commute mode and I get changed at work. If I was worried about getting sweaty with a rucksack, then I'd use the front bag.

I have to say though, while I do have a front bag, in use I'm not keen on not being able to see my front wheel. I find it unnerving.

 

[12boy]

We are blessed with many thorns, called goat heads and I, too, like seeing the wheel as picking them off before they are driven too far in can avoid a flat.

 

[berlinonaut]

Front rack is nice, but Brompton bags are really expensive.

Here we go again. That's what I meant with an overfocus on "cheap".

I do get the point that Brompton made something unique and are trying to cash in(...) Usually my bags don't last much, be it backpacks, luggage or shoulder bags. I would say most of them last about a year. After a year something wears out (it depends on a bag I use)- a ziper, wheel, handle, shoulder strap or bag just gets too dirty... I just don't want to spend more than £100 for something that would last me a year. Perhaps a lot of people here would jump in commenting on Brompton bag quality, longevity etc, but seriously, look around on ebay, gumtree or some other websites for used Brompton bags. You will realize that it is just a bag, might be a little bit better material, but at the end of the day they wear out. I seen plenty pictures of used Brompton bags that look like they came from a dumpster and I don't mean they were worn out to the bits. I mean that there is a difference when professional photographer takes a picture or some of the product pictures are not even pictures, but computer generated images. Amateur pictures reveal all the glory, or lack of it for the product after slight use.

In my eyes the luggage block along with the bag system ist not only unique but an essential part of the Brompton ecosystem and experience that makes a real difference. They are part of the concept - not only in terms of luggage storage but also in terms of ease of use and the weight of the front bag enhances how well the Brompton rides.
My oldest Brompton bag is well over 20 years old and it looks admittedly heavily used. Because it has been heavily used for that time. Most of my other bags, though intensively used as well and up to 15 years old look more or less like new. I do own a bunch of bags for the carrier block and while they seem expensive on the first look they are well worth the money. Which in my eyes holds not true for most 3rd party bags (Carradice-Brompton bags and Lumabags being an exception) and also not for most homegrown custom fitted to a Brompton luggage frame solutions. No way I would, having the choice between rear carrier and front bag, choose the rear carrier over the front bag. It is clearly a second best choice.
So possibly that's another datapoint where you may be a bit over-self confident and judge easily on something based on possibly a wrong belief and a lack of experience.

In case someone is in similar situation like me, looks like I found all necessary info here: https://www.perennialcycle.com/media/wysiwyg/files/Brompton_Rack_Datasheet.pdf Just a few screws, nuts and washers are essential for my usage scenario.

This manual is part of the package when you order a rack. You could download the pdf directly from Brompton as well in former times but since they started to become less technical in their support area those datasheets are in many cases easier to get hold of from dealer webpages. Namely brilliant bikes used to have those datasheets available for download in their shop as well but it seems to be gone there as well.

 

[Schwinnsta]

Brompton bags that I have are well-made and last. Buy used ones if you are looking to save money. I have two that are used and one I got new with the bike in 2014.

 

[CEBEP]

You don't have to buy Brompton original bags for front carrier block. If budget is tight you can check Aliexpress where you can find decent quality bags of various capacities designed for Brompton for less.

 

[berlinonaut]

you can check Aliexpress where you can find decent quality bags of various capacities designed for Brompton for less.

Just out of curiosity: On which foundation do you make your statement? No doubt that there are a lot of bags on Aliexpess that are cheaper than the originals. But in terms of "decent quality": What makes decent quality? In my eyes it is: Well made, very useful in practice, long lasting. Preferably nice looking as well. So for a statement like that you should have owned and tested in practice a bunch of bags from Aliexpress in all usage, load and weather conditions, compared them with the equivalent original bags and used them intensively over at least a decade to be able to tell how they do qualitywise longterm. Have you? I doubt it. For one as you not own a Brompton for that long and second because these offerings do only exist for not too long.
One should really not underestimate the design efforts in Brompton bags - there are a lot of tiny things and aspects that make a huge difference in practice. Brompton do have 35 years of experience with designing, making and using bags for their bike and while they are not perfect and not all bags are equally good and useful you'll recognize the difference to a lot of aftermarket bags quickly in practice. Same goes for Carradice bags - they have many decades of experience with making bike bags and produced the initial range of Brompton bags. Same goes for Radical design - they also produced a wider range of the Brompton bag lineup until a couple of years ago and also do produce a wide range of bike bags for other bikes for many years.

Looking for a cheap price only is really stupid - looking at the value you get and the problem you want to solve is way more relevant. Basically the essence of the famous quotes from John Ruskin (that may be genuine or not):

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

along with the second one:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."

Other than that: You will use a Brompton bag intensively for at least a decade. So it is less of a consumable but more of an investment. If you take the 10 years of usage into account the price seems pretty irrelevant. On the other hand even small annoyances that you have to deal with for ten years just because you were too greedy initially are not worth it. At least in my eyes.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Just out of curiosity: On which foundation do you make your statement? No doubt that there are a lot of bags on Aliexpess that are cheaper than the originals. But in terms of "decent quality": What makes decent quality? In my eyes it is: Well made, very useful in practice, long lasting. Preferably nice looking as well. So for a statement like that you should have owned and tested in practice a bunch of bags from Aliexpress in all usage, load and weather conditions, compared them with the equivalent original bags and used them intensively over at least a decade to be able to tell how they do qualitywise longterm. Have you? I doubt it. For one as you not own a Brompton for that long and second because these offerings do only exist for not too long.
One should really not underestimate the design efforts in Brompton bags - there are a lot of tiny things and aspects that make a huge difference in practice. Brompton do have 35 years of experience with designing, making and using bags for their bike and while they are not perfect and not all bags are equally good and useful you'll recognize the difference to a lot of aftermarket bags quickly in practice. Same goes for Carradice bags - they have many decades of experience with making bike bags and produced the initial range of Brompton bags. Same goes for Radical design - they also produced a wider range of the Brompton bag lineup until a couple of years ago and also do produce a wide range of bike bags for other bikes for many years.

Looking for a cheap price only is really stupid - looking at the value you get and the problem you want to solve is way more relevant. Basically the essence of the famous quotes from John Ruskin (that may be genuine or not):

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

along with the second one:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."

Other than that: You will use a Brompton bag intensively for at least a decade. So it is less of a consumable but more of an investment. If you take the 10 years of usage into account the price seems pretty irrelevant. On the other hand even small annoyances that you have to deal with for ten years just because you were too greedy initially are not worth it. At least in my eyes.

Terry Pratchett summed it up in a different way:

“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socioeconomic unfairness.”