Question about aluminium frame challenge to carbon fibre frames?

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I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
My 1996 hardtail Alu MTB has been absolutely battered it's whole life (including tonight) and is still going strong.

You must be mad to decommission a perfectly good bike purely because it is 5 years old. I've had a few alu frames develop cracks over the years but never had one disintegrate while riding. If you inspect your bike periodically and investigate any strange creaks and noises then you are sureto spot any issues before they become failures.
 

Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
I used a Boardman Comp (£600) road bike originally but laid it up after 5 years use for fear of fatigue failure around the welds of the bottom bracket area.
Why?

What makes you think 5 years is a reasonable cutoff point?

How long it is likely to last is going to be dependent on how much you use it, but I would expect a typical road bike, with reasonable amateur usage (probably averaging less than 100 miles/week) is going to last a heck of a lot longer than 5 years before risking fatigue failures.
 
OP
OP
R

Rain drops

Active Member
I can't answer people properly. My posts are all held back for some time waiting for mods approval. By the time they appear everything has moved on leaving me out on a limb. Sorry. I'll leave it at that.

I am prevented from answering, and being made to look stupid! The article I wrote in explanation yesterday is still being withheld awaiting mod approval. I don't wish to continue on such a basis. Thank you.
 
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Sharky

Guru
Location
Kent
This article may have been the trigger for this thread.

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/401/the-return-of-the-aluminium-frame

Seems to be just a cost consideration. An alu bike with high end components can be just as good overall as a carbon with lower spec'd components.

If you want the best, you would choose carbon with high end components. But costs would be high end as well.

So just a compromise.
 
This article may have been the trigger for this thread.

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/401/the-return-of-the-aluminium-frame

Seems to be just a cost consideration. An alu bike with high end components can be just as good overall as a carbon with lower spec'd components.

If you want the best, you would choose carbon with high end components. But costs would be high end as well.

So just a compromise.

That article is dated 2015.

Bowman has since gone bump.

I'm sure alu bikes have a reasonable life span. I'm still not convinced there is any hard evidence of a resurgence in alu bikes.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Aluminium frames appear to be resurgent in challenge to carbon fibre frames, in both light weight, and compliance. Is this sensible with regard to durability, and longevity?
Where have you learnt there has been a resurgence in alu ?
Magazine article ? Bloke who owns a bike shop ?
@Rain drops to help us along here, please can you tell us the basis for "appear to be resurgent" and what "resurgent" and "challenge" mean?
How about some figures on numbers of new bikes sold (say) of these (and steel) materials? What facts are you seeking to make sense of ("is this sensible") ragarding durability and longevity of bike frames made of the various material options?
Or is all this just your octogenarian musings?
 

november4

Well-Known Member
This thread is cheerfully ironic to me as I just found horizontal scores on the upper inside of my nearly new giant aluminium road bike, which has a carbon fork - worried about the fork imploding under load, I was under the impression that carbon is less durable than metal
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
In 50+ years I have never had a frame snap on me. When choosing what material a bike is made of. You need to decide what the bike is going to be used for.
 
In 50+ years I have never had a frame snap on me. When choosing what material a bike is made of. You need to decide what the bike is going to be used for.

I had a nightmare with a Kuota Khydra carbon frame £1800 pissed up the wall - always creaking , then eventually* cracked and cracked after a repair. I do believe this was a dud from the start and should never have passed QC.
(*I say eventually - its entire lifespan was less than 36 months !!!)

Ive brought another carbon frame since - I really like how carbon rides. I have an alloy ribble for wet/winter duties - its fine for that - although heavy v the carbon.

Any beginners I would point to alloy - such as giant contend purely on price. You can pretty much do anything on an alloy bike. personally I think carbon is nicer - but thats personal preference.
 
This thread is cheerfully ironic to me as I just found horizontal scores on the upper inside of my nearly new giant aluminium road bike, which has a carbon fork - worried about the fork imploding under load, I was under the impression that carbon is less durable than metal

Horizontal scores ? Where ? Any photos ?
 
I've two alloy frames, the newest of which is 18 years old. That one is a big-tube hardtail hybrid, so probably not subject to great stress. The other is a tight-geometry road frame, with a cro-moly fork. I've done a couple of thousand miles on it. Its previous owner essentially rode it until it wouldn't go any more. While this is also a large-tube design, it has to put up with a fair bit of punishment from the bad roads and trails.
It will almost certainly outlive me.
There's nothing wrong with your Boardman. Why would there be?
 

cyberknight

As long as I breathe, I attack.
I have heard a few stories about giant frames cracking around the junction of seat and top tube , i reckon its something to do with the sloping top tube in their design in the earlier models .
Heard of 2 replaced by giant under warranty and seen another personally which i found and stripped for parts
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Aluminium frames appear to be resurgent in challenge to carbon fibre frames, in both light weight, and compliance. Is this sensible with regard to durability, and longevity? Aluminium has problems in situations where it is subject to continual flexing, which leads to fatigue failure. (Sudden snapping.) Those of us into sea sports (windsurfing in particular) were continually having to replace alloy booms (built to unavoidably flex somewhat) on nearly a yearly basis, and blessed the day composites (carbon fibre) took their place. Carbon fibre, provided it does not exceed its design limits of flexing, is almost impervious to fatigue.

It will be interesting to see if these lightweight alloy bikes with higher compliance (comfort) now challenging the role of carbon fibre (why, for goodness sake?) are indeed long lasting and durable? I would assume not! I used a Boardman Comp (£600) road bike originally but laid it up after 5 years use for fear of fatigue failure around the welds of the bottom bracket area. The current pair of carbon fibre bikes should be impervious to fatigue, apart crash failure, and should see me out.

M.T.B.'s successfully use alloy frames but they are not subject to smoothing compliance in that the full suspension plays that role, and the frames can be kept rigid. I see no downside in their design.
An interesting point and I concur totally with your concerns. I think in this context "compliant aluminium" is a functional oxymoron, since to be "compliant" it needs to be able to flex, which is going to kill it all the more quickly.

I had a Scandium alu frame (As thin walled as it gets) for seven years and it was still in A1 condition when I sold it to a guy who subsequently went on to race it.

People who question the safety of aluminium for frames are happy to ride about with alloy bars and stem, cranks, seatposts, rims and hubs etc without worrying about a catastrophic failure.
I think this is a legitimate question of application. IMO finishing kit is less stressed than other areas of the frame, while also typically better-placed to resist any cyclic loading it does encounter as it's typically made in one part, while the frames I've seen fail (including my own) have gone around welds which I imagine are already subject to stress concentrations from the welding process.

It's not like every ally frame is going to immediately drop to bits and kill its rider, however conceptually the concern is legitimate and far more relevant to ally than other materials.

This thread is cheerfully ironic to me as I just found horizontal scores on the upper inside of my nearly new giant aluminium road bike, which has a carbon fork - worried about the fork imploding under load, I was under the impression that carbon is less durable than metal
CFRP will degrade over time with cyclic loading as individual fibres break / fibre-epoxy bonds break down; however the fatigue limit of this material is far higher than others. The concern is that all this can go on with zero outward signs of impending doom; while of course the whole process can be hastened by one or more non-trivial impacts.

There's also the fact that its properties are anisotropic - meaning it's potentially very strong in one direction and really not so much in another - so when subjected to loading or impact in a direction other than those specifically accounted for in its design (such as a bike falling and the top tube striking the edge of something hard) the outcome is likely to be far more severe than it would be for an equivalent metal frame.

I have heard a few stories about giant frames cracking around the junction of seat and top tube , i reckon its something to do with the sloping top tube in their design in the earlier models .
Heard of 2 replaced by giant under warranty and seen another personally which i found and stripped for parts
Yes, this seems to be a popular mode of failure, and where mine went - on a bike that sadly pre-dated their more generous warranty provisions by several years.

Some thoughts as to what might have precipitated the failure in my case are mooted in my thread on the subject..

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