Recommendations for chainsaw, budget around £200

[glasgowcyclist]

They hand out chainsaws for £70 at Tesco, there are no regulations or requirements, they don’t make you produce a license or promise to use it safely.

It’s just another power tool.

I bought my Ryobi 46cm petrol chainsaw from the bargain bucket at B&Q for thirty quid. I didn't need one at the time but it was to good a bargain to resist!
(It was ex-display and didn't have its carrying case or owt else.)

My brother tried to hire one from his local HSS and they wouldn't let him unless he produced his chainsaw training certificate.

 

[graham bowers]

I've posted this on a couple of woodworking forums. I'll come back to you with the responses later. I have to tell you that there are tens of thousands of wonderful old cast iron machines in common service around the country, highly sought after and snapped up whenever they come up for sale, which were built before the EU existed, and before British Standards were a thing. Dealers trade in them. Specialists re-build them. If this directive really applied to home woodworking there would be no such market.

The regulations are not retrospective so machinery that was put into service before the date the Directive came in to force are not in scope. Have a look at any modern bit of kit and you will see it is CE marked**, which tells you it is compliant with the Machinery Directive. ** You may come across illegal grey import machinery that isn't CE marked, but should be.

Apart from the general requirements that apply to all machinery, woodworking equipment has its own specific requirements. Clause 2.3 of Annex 1 would be a good place to start. Remember, the Directive makes no distinction between home and non-home contexts.

I will admit that there is much misinformation about the detail of the Machinery Directive out there, so obtaining responses from another forum that are contradictory to what I am saying is reasonably foreseeable.

 

[MikeG]

The regulations are not retrospective so machinery that was put into service before the date the Directive came in to force are not in scope..........

Thanks. That is in direct contradiction to your claim:

........ if you have machinery, you must have compliant machinery that is CE marked..........

 

[raleighnut]

I've posted this on a couple of woodworking forums. I'll come back to you with the responses later. I have to tell you that there are tens of thousands of wonderful old cast iron machines in common service around the country, highly sought after and snapped up whenever they come up for sale, which were built before the EU existed, and before British Standards were a thing. Dealers trade in them. Specialists re-build them. If this directive really applied to home woodworking there would be no such market.

Tell me about it, a bloke I worked for bought some kit from a place that had closed and amongst the table saws, overhead routers and other kit was one of these,



He couldn't understand why I was 'excited' about it til I told him they were the best spindle moulder ever built and fetched £2,500+

 

[MikeG]

Tell me about it, a bloke I worked for bought some kit from a place that had closed and amongst the table saws, overhead routers and other kit was one of these,

View attachment 406057

He couldn't understand why I was 'excited' about it til I told him they were the best spindle moulder ever built and fetched £2,500+

Wow. Just add a power feed and you're set for all-day-long factory-standard production runs.

 

[MikeG]

It might technically apply, but the HSE are far too busy with dodgy factories to randomly snoop on people's sheds

No. It doesn't. It really doesn't. It has to be a "place of work" for the HSE to have any jurisdiction.

 

[classic33]

Tell me about it, a bloke I worked for bought some kit from a place that had closed and amongst the table saws, overhead routers and other kit was one of these,

View attachment 406057

He couldn't understand why I was 'excited' about it til I told him they were the best spindle moulder ever built and fetched £2,500+

He pay anywhere near that much?

Liquidation auctions are best.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

No. It doesn't. It really doesn't. It has to be a "place of work" for the HSE to have any jurisdiction.

That explains why they're rarely involved in the deaths and injury caused by the most dangerous machinery out there: motor vehicles.

 

[MikeG]

Here is an early reply from a the UK Workshop forum:

Yes many companies made the same mistake and dumped pre directive kit. I guess like others i profited from this.

But it isnt true. I can take you to a modern engineering firm where perfectly usable kit made in the fifties is running with full compliance with the law. True it has had extra guards and in some case dc braking fitted.
I know its OK as I designed changes and wrote risk assessments for it myself and the HSE send other engineering companies to look as examples of best practice.

With regards to second hand..........you will find most kit is "sold as seen".
With regards to us DIYers with no employees, H&S at work does not apply.

 

[srw]

No. It doesn't. It really doesn't. It has to be a "place of work" for the HSE to have any jurisdiction.

"Workplace means any premises or part of a premises which are made available to any person as a place of work. It does not cover domestic premises."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/toolbox/workplace/index.htm

So your chum on the other forum who said "With regards to us DIYers with no employees, H&S at work does not apply." is only partly right. If it's pure DIY, H&S doesn't apply. But if you started selling your concoctions, or fitting out other people's houses from your garage I rather think you'd struggle to maintain the line that it's DIY.

In any case, the best advice to anyone, DIYer or not, is to have regard to best practice in safety procedures. Which in the UK means HSE guidelines. And in the specific case of using a chainsaw means getting professional training and wearing the right protective kit.

 

[srw]

That explains why they're rarely involved in the deaths and injury caused by the most dangerous machinery out there: motor vehicles.

*Ahem*

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/oms/2009/002.htm#Appendix-Situations

It's because in most cases there are more specific regulations.

In any case, it's not true that road vehicles are the most dangerous bits of machinery out there. They are among the safest, but because they are so all-pervasive they give rise to a lot of incidents.

 

[raleighnut]

Wow. Just add a power feed and you're set for all-day-long factory-standard production runs.

I used to do a fair bit of 'rabbitting' on MDF/Chipboard carcases, prior to him getting this we only had an 'overhead' to do it on.

He pay anywhere near that much?

Liquidation auctions are best.

Part of a 'job lot' with a lot of other kit from somewhere that closed due to the owner retiring and not being able to sell the company as everyone wanted 'CNC' machines for production runs but we did bespoke unitary mainly and 'glue 'n' screw/pin' just ain't up to the job.

 

[Tin Pot]

... it is my strong opinion that to take short cuts with chainsaws is very ill advised.

I think almost all of us agree with that.

 

[graham bowers]

Here is an early reply from a the UK Workshop forum:
Yes many companies made the same mistake and dumped pre directive kit. I guess like others i profited from this.

But it isnt true. I can take you to a modern engineering firm where perfectly usable kit made in the fifties is running with full compliance with the law. True it has had extra guards and in some case dc braking fitted.
I know its OK as I designed changes and wrote risk assessments for it myself and the HSE send other engineering companies to look as examples of best practice.

With regards to second hand..........you will find most kit is "sold as seen".
With regards to us DIYers with no employees, H&S at work does not apply.

Other than a bit of loose language in the last few words, I'm in complete agreement with your correspondent from the woodworking forum.

"H&S at work does not apply" in that context is loose language that the unwary may interpret as appertaining to all health and safety related legislation.

It would be correct to say the H&S at work act (1974) does not apply to DIY. Also, as discussed earlier in this thread, in work situations, pre-directive kit does not have to comply retrospectively with the machinery directive. But the risk assessment requirement of the H&S at W Act (1974) applies as does the requirements of PUWER (1998). That is why your correspondent correctly had some safety related improvements made to the machinery.

It would be incorrect to conclude from your correspondent's contribution that the machinery Directive 2006/42/EC did not apply to in-scope machinery used for DIY. He did not say that, by the way, and as he seems versed in this field, suspect he is fully aware.

 

[MikeG]

A couple more responses (there have been dozens, none of which support the original claim here):

Guidance for the actual implementation of the directive in the UK.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg270.pdf

"supply of new machinery 2008"
very clear

A short guide to the law and your responsibilities when supplying machinery for use at work

It links to HSW which in turn links to PUWER, neither of which are relevant for home gamer.
Does he need to comply? no, unless he pays someone to help or sells it. then yes.

side note, sale of goods act was revoked in 2015, replaced by consumer rights act.

The other point to make is that as already stated it is PUWER that applies in the UK.

But just something has a CE mark it does not mean it complies with PUWER.

So we can be pretty sure that the original claim:

........if you have machinery, you must have compliant machinery that is CE marked...........

is just flat out wrong (in the context of home machinery for DIY).